Judge rules much of Mississippi River off limits to anglers

[Wingman]

I've never dropped a prop in either of these two examples. I am going strictly on what the topo map shows to be what I think is the original river bank. I look where the isogonic (I think that's the word) lines are stacked up next to each other, indicating a rapid rise in elevation. That's the old riverbank. If you get out there and look at it in real life, you will more than likely be able to see it.

I don't know what Louisiana law says, but the red lines on this map of Chotard (Albemarle on the right side) are where I think the natural banks are located. If you stay in between those banks, you should be able to go anywhere in the water.



This map is of Beulah. I presume the Crevasse is what they are saying was created by earthquake and the COE dug a channel to it from the oxbow( you can see where the channel cuts right through the bank indicated by the lines on the map). It is my opinion that everything between the red lines is between the natural river banks. If you get outside those banks, even though everything else might be flooded, you are outside the public waterway.



Once again, I've never set foot on either of these places so I could be wrong. I'm just using the topo to determine what appears to be the natural banks.

[Skeeter]

well, looking at that map, the red line has to be at least a half mile from the boat ramp as the crow flies....at least....we've been deep in those woods, but as I get to thinking about it, you would have to go a long, long way to get to that red line, or on private land.....that makes more sense looking at that map...thanks for posting that

D

[YazooValley]

Wingman --

I basically agree with your assessments here. If you're between the high banks, as generally indicated by your red lines, the water is accessible and huntable.

But the underlying land is still privately owned, no matter what the water level is. To me, that means if I touch the bottom or a willow tree, I'm trespassing. If that's not the rule, then anyone can come in and cut the timber or deer hunt between the high banks when the water is not up to the high bank. The water is public but the dirt or anything attached to the dirt is still private. So if you can get into the backwater without touching the bottom and without touching a tree and your decoy weights don't touch bottom, you're on public water and you're OK.

Here's another question. If all oxbows and bayous of the state of Mississippi are public, how can the feds restrict hunting on Swan Lake or any bayous that lie within NWR's? As long as you stay within the normal banks, it seems to me that they can't.

[chadrideduck]

I've never dropped a prop in either of these two examples. I am going strictly on what the topo map shows to be what I think is the original river bank. I look where the isogonic (I think that's the word) lines are stacked up next to each other, indicating a rapid rise in elevation. That's the old riverbank. If you get out there and look at it in real life, you will more than likely be able to see it.

I don't know what Louisiana law says, but the red lines on this map of Chotard (Albemarle on the right side) are where I think the natural banks are located. If you stay in between those banks, you should be able to go anywhere in the water.



This map is of Beulah. I presume the Crevasse is what they are saying was created by earthquake and the COE dug a channel to it from the oxbow( you can see where the channel cuts right through the bank indicated by the lines on the map). It is my opinion that everything between the red lines is between the natural river banks. If you get outside those banks, even though everything else might be flooded, you are outside the public waterway.



Once again, I've never set foot on either of these places so I could be wrong. I'm just using the topo to determine what appears to be the natural banks.

The question is......Is the land from the red line to the river privately owned by someone who is paying taxes on that land and spending time and money improving it, or is it land owned by the government? I don't know what that red line represents, so I can't respond to that. i can say that if it is privately owned, then once again, just because the river rises, and spreads some water over that privately owned land that no one would walk or ride an ATV over to go hunting any other day, why does anyone think they would ever have the right to do that when there is some water on top of that privately owned land for a short period of time because the river floods. That doesn't even make good sense, because when the water receeds, you would not walk or drive over that privately owned land to go back and hunt.

[torch]

Because the law refers to high water mark. It is intended to be navagable water and oxbows fall under that ruling. I can show you islands on the MS river that is owned by the State and hunting clubs post when the water is low because their land touches it. I hunt it when the water is up.

[Wingman]

Guys, the land is privately owned. Even the land under the Mississippi River is somebody's land, according to MS law. But the law says when the water is on that land between the natural banks, it is the public's right to use the water. The water level will rise and fall depending on many things. You can use it when it's low and you can use it when it's high, so long as you stay between the natural banks and in the water.

To me, that means if I touch the bottom or a willow tree, I'm trespassing. If that's not the rule, then anyone can come in and cut the timber or deer hunt between the high banks when the water is not up to the high bank. The water is public but the dirt or anything attached to the dirt is still private. So if you can get into the backwater without touching the bottom and without touching a tree and your decoy weights don't touch bottom, you're on public water and you're OK.

Wading in the water, decoy weights or boat anchors touching the bottom or touching a tree in the water has been declared a normal part of the hunting process. No, you cannot cut down trees or hunt from the dry land. It is also illegal to hunt deer from a boat in MS.

The question is......Is the land from the red line to the river privately owned by someone who is paying taxes on that land and spending time and money improving it, or is it land owned by the government?

All of the land is owned by private individuals. Even land up under the Big river that barges pass over every day is somebody's land. But it is land between the natural banks of the old river channel (or existing river channel) and when flooded, the public has a right to use the water.

If you will go back and reread my posts, I said that as long as you are in the water, between the natural banks you are okay. You cannot be on the dry land between the natural banks and you cannot be in floodwater outside the natural banks.

If all oxbows and bayous of the state of Mississippi are public

I never said all bayous were public. Straight Bayou isn't public, Silver Creek isn't public, Jackson Bayou isn't public. Tippo Bayou runs right through Tallahatchie NWR and Tippo is public. I don't know how it can be public, but can be restricted by the Feds. I'll have to double check on that because the portion that runs through the refuge is part of the public waterway declared by MDEQ.

[YazooValley]

Wading in the water, decoy weights or boat anchors touching the bottom or touching a tree in the water has been declared a normal part of the hunting process.

By whom? Is that a law enforcement interpretation or is there some other authority for that?

[chadrideduck]

I bet CBrown never thought this thread would go this long and get as deep.

[torch]

is this a record on MS ducks?

[chadrideduck]

is this a record on MS ducks?

I don't know but it has to be close to it if its not.

[Grommet]

I thought that I was taking it to far by bring it back up and draging it out for three or four pages. It has gotten so out of hand now that I can't even follow what we are arguing about and I am not about to take the time to re-read the whole thread.

[marshman]

Wingman......where did you find the maps that show where the natural banks are? I'd like to look at where the natura banks would be for Lakes Lee and Ferguson in Washington county.

[Wingman]

I thought that I was taking it to far by bring it back up and draging it out for three or four pages. It has gotten so out of hand now that I can't even follow what we are arguing about and I am not about to take the time to re-read the whole thread.

If you would take the time to read, you would see that it is not out of hand and we are not arguing. I thought I was providing some useful information that would show hunters what they are entitled to use while at the same time protecting landowner's rights on land that isn't public when flooded. I imagine the ones who want the discussion to stop are those who also tell people that "their" oxbow is posted.

But if y'all consider it to be useless arguing and out of hand, I'll stop. For what it's worth, one fella that posted toward the front of this thread that a certain oxbow was private has pm'd me and agreed that it is public. I even thwarted attempts by a lawyer last year that tried to post all of an oxbow, when in reality, he can only legally post the Arkansas side. But hey, if y'all want me to shutup, I got no problem with that.

$20 gets you a cd of aerial maps of public waterways in the Delta, all MS River oxbows, topos of the waterways and oxbows and the laws concerning what is public and what isn't. I've spent hundreds of hours of my time researching this and will be glad to share my findings with you for $20

And, no, it's not a record. The Willow Break teal hunt thread is longer.

[Money]

And, no, it's not a record. The Willow Break teal hunt thread is longer.

Don't forget the "Panic at Hobstock" thread. Carry on.

[Wingman]

Jimmy crack corn and I don't care.