Voluntary Restraint

[Anatidae]

There's 36........but 'OODuck' let the cat outa the bag.....I've been experimenting with my photo editing software.

Of course some of ya'll were just playing along with the gag.

D-Yankee's right......why would anyone 'need' to kill that many? Good question! I hesitated to display that image for fear that it would fuel an uprising or spark the quantity/quality debate again. Glad to know it stimulated some 'serious' thought, as well....that was part of the point of posting something so reee-diculous.

Actually, there are 8 greenheads in the original photo.....a 2-man limit (actually a 1-man/1-woman limit....that's HER dog). [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] The other 28 greenheads are 'clones'.

Here's the original...


The photo w/ 36 ducks would represent (according to Greenhead22) a 4-1/2 man, 'daily' posession limit of 36 mallards. (Man, you KNOW I'm never gonna let you live THAT down!) [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

.....or it could be a 9-man limit of greenheads, but ya'll are right......about 3 folks is all you can get in this boat with the dog, gear, and 6doz decoys......PLUS we enjoy a good relationship with our local wardens and wouldn't risk doing anything that would betray their trust.

Actually 'Jeff'....we invited a friend of ours (a local warden) to go with us the very next day.....'course the ducks moved-out overnight. [img]images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img]

'JT'...."In your DREAMS!" The only thing we have (typically) in our area on opening day is GADWALLS. [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] Two years ago we quit shooting them on Christmas Day 'cause we got tired of'em......that's all there was....'decided we'd go home with Mallards or NOTHIN', after that.

'Pintail'....I'm not too worried......I've never actually been there, myself. [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img](HUH??) [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img]... so all anyone needs to know about 'location' is.....that's where the ducks were, THAT day.

That's a good idea, Lou....I like that!

[ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: Anatidae ]

[Anatidae]

..........And to show ya'll that we ARE human [img]images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img].....and occassionally succumb to the temptation to shoot a hen [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]........




(We only shoot the really DUMB ones to keep them from passing-on those inferior genes.......'good thing I'm not a duck!) [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img]

[ May 29, 2002: Message edited by: Anatidae ]

[Greenhead22]

Hmmmmm..........

I see 11 GH's and 2 Gadwall drakes. Dad gum you over da limit again. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

I don't know who you've been hanging around, but they've become a bad influence on you. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Now let me see what I can do with those pics, a robo duck there, a box of lead shot here. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[Anatidae]

You need to have yo headlights aligned. Not all 'brown' ducks are gadwalls, ya know.

I WISH they had been gadwall drakes but one's a 'suzie' and the other is a hen pintail.......double 'No-No'!! [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

What da ya mean, over the limit?......that's a 2-dog/1-photographer limit o' 'mallets' if I ever saw one. [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] Count'em.....'You got that many fingers (12), don't ya? [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]....('bein's how you grew-up in the land of toxophene and DDT) (Must be 2 thumbs on each hand, judging by the way he shoots skeet.) [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]BWAAAAHAHAhahaha!! [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[ May 29, 2002: Message edited by: Anatidae ]

[Greenhead22]

There are cameras that will take pics without needing a photographer. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

You wanna go shoot tomorrow or not? I'll even shoot without my glasses to make it even. [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]

And yes I do need to get my eyes checked, been needed it for 1 1/2yrs, but don't have the $250 for the checkup/glasses/lenses.

[Anatidae]

Yeah, maybe......depends on the weather......call me 'fore noon, if you can.

[ May 29, 2002: Message edited by: Anatidae ]

[Doc & Nash]

Dang Antatidae, I liked the first picture with the 36 greenheads better, It gave me hope, plus who knows you might have been hunting with 7 other people. JK, that was nifty, thanks for the increase in adrenaline none the less.

[gator]

dang anat, i was gonna ask if that was a "daily" limit but you beat me to it... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

[Doc & Nash]

I know that could have not been last year!!!

[Hambone]

Anatidae, where did you get the Golden Retriever that's on the left in the second picture? He has an eerie resemblance to my old Golden, Crockett, who loved duck hunting better than anything.

[Anatidae]

Hambone....that's 'Topbrass' Flying Sprig'...my wife's dog she bought from Jackie Mertens, 6 years ago. 'Never seen anything like those fast, little dogs. She weighs 63lbs and leaves the 'line' like a bullet.......absolutely LIVES to retrieve!

When you load your gun, she 'zones-out'......."don't 'mess with me, I'm HUNTING!"......all she wants to DO is HUNT. When you unload, THEN "you can pet me, now"......but until then, it's "ya'll just do YOUR job and knock'em down and leave the rest to ME.....I'll get'em!.....alright, pay attention....here comes some more outa the West.....start calling!......what are you waiting for?.....come-on, get with the 'program'" She's 99% of the fun of hunting, to us!

You know, they say a dog takes-on the character of it's handler......there's a lot of truth in that!!

She's not what you'd call 'finished', but she does everything we need her to do....(the dog, that is.......wife's perty 'high-strung' and a little hard-headed) [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]...oops [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] "Oh, hey babe....didn't know you were reading this thread. [img]images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img] I was just....Ouch, [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] OOOOHH!, [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] Oh ShhhheeeOUCH.... [img]images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img] HELP!!" [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img]

If you're interested I'm sure Anne would e-mail some more photos of 'Sprig'.....I'm SURE she'll be glad to answer questions you might have about her dog. We'd be interested in hearing about 'Crockett', too! Send us a photo or something.

The dog on the right was our 'sweetheart' ('Brandy') we put to sleep opening weekend this year. She would've been 16 this past February. It's tough to say "goodbye", isn't it....but she had a good life. How long did you have 'Crockett'?

[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: Anatidae ]

[Hambone]

Anatidae, thanks for the information on Sprig. We bought Crockett in 1992 from a guy in Memphis who didn't hunt but had a litter of puppies advertised in the paper. We had lost another Golden a couple of months before and were really just trying to decide if we were ready to bring a pup into our lives. You know what happened next...he stole our hearts! We were lucky that he turned out the way he did, considering that he was an impulse buy in a vulnerable moment. For the next nine seasons, Crockett was our constant companion, both in the field and out. He retrieved a couple of thousand doves and ducks, loving every minute of it. When he was in a cypress brake or a dove field, he was all business, but at home, he was a big lap dog. We lost him in September, 2001 to a relatively rare disease called megaesophagus. When my children asked me why he had to die, all I could tell them was that God must have needed a new hunting dog. We have a pair of very good Black Labs and a promising young Golden, but Crockett will always have that special place in our memory. Mrs. Hambone maintains the files on our retrievers' blood lines. I would be interested to find out if Crockett and Sprig share any common ancestry, because they really favor each other.

[Hammer]

Seems to me that Voluntary Restraint is kinda subjective...I know a guy that killed 200 ducks one season in limit hunting only (several states...He bagged 198 drakes and 2 hens...Sure the resource is better off that he only killed 2 hens instead of 40 but he still killed a boatload of ducks...

Some biologists say hunting mortality is irrelevant since these birds would die anyway...Call this the SUBSTITUTE argument...
If this is true then VR makes no difference...

Others say that hunting mortality counts and is ADDITIVE to the natural mortality...Call this is the ADDITIVE argument...If this is true then VR is important...

Personally I try not to shoot hens of any species, especially mallards and wood ducks which are easy to deferentiate...Sure on a slow hunt I will shoot a hen but never more than 4 or 5 per season...GADS are much tougher to shoot selectively and if you are shooting GADS you will probably shoot some PIN AND WIGEON susies...

In sum, I support the "VR" concept because I think hunting mortality is SUBSITUTIVE up to a point and then becomes ADDITIVE, but I think nesting habitat and predator control are far bigger issues.

HAMMER

[Wildfowler]

Hambone, that does look just like Crockett. WOW! Funny thing, did you notice how much the dog on the right looks like Clint?

[Anatidae]

In answer to the original ?.....I think it's important for all of us to make an effort to practice 'restraint', whether the affect of not doing so (depending upon what 'theory' you subscribe to), proves to be significant, or not. I also think it's important to be 'informed' of as many issues that impact production and sustainability......like Hammer, CaptT, D-yankee, BrianB, SB, Webfoot, Hambone, Duckmen, Ole Bufflehead, and a whole lot of OTHER fellas I haven't mentioned.

I think everyone will agree it's better NOT to shoot hens 'cause they ARE more vulnerable to predation during nesting. The more hens, the better the odds that SOME of those will survive long enough to produce a successful clutch.....thus more ducks......thus a 'sustainable' population ......thus, "FETCH'EM-UP, Phideaux!!" To borrow 'Hammer's' format, Call this 'DEDUCTIVE'....(and subject to intense ridicule from the anti's, if presented in those exact terms.)

The following scenario is based on raw conjecture and may seem ridiculous, but is intended to illustrate a point.....that you can't rely on 'common sense' and 'hearsay', when dealing with such a dynamic resource.

Call this 'The Billy-Bob Theory'. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Let's say, out of 200 hens, 100 have a successful hatch. (The other 100 either became predator food and/or their nest was destroyed and didn't re-nest.) IF those 100 remaining hens each had 2 duckling hens survive, then that's 300 hens, right?. That's doesn't seem so good......But WAIT [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img] ...it gets worse!!

The Minnesota season opens and 100 juvenile hens get 'whacked' over illegal moto ducks. THEN, the other 100 remaining juvenile hens get SQUASHED by 42 bazillion metric tons of 'waste' corn that was covertly air-dropped from the bellies of C-130's over Illinois.....intended, by the Northern half of the Mississippi Flyway Council, DU, and Al Caida terrorists (often referred to on the NBC Nightly New as the 'Northern Alliance'), to shortstop the migration in reprisal against the Congressional Delegation of Mississippi (and their greedy duck-killing constituents), who just wanted to show the 'Yankees' how easy it is to completely disregard ANY scientific data and undermine the process of establishing regulatory policy which has come under severe scrutiny due to their 'percieved' inability to differentiate between snow geese and 'cormorants'.

So, how many hens are left?...........I think 100. We're right back where we started, aren't we?

'Point is.....every hen we kill is one LESS egg-laying duck that returns to the breeding grounds....as well as the offspring of HER offspring. You don't have to read any 'study' to figure that out......whether or not it makes any difference, is for 'professionals' to determine.

The managers allow one hen in the bag for the inevitable hunting mortality due to human error or indiscretion(greed).......(they don't 'label' "WHO'S better than WHO"....just that it's likely to HAPPEN). However, I STILL question the 2-hen provision in the bag. [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img].....What the HECK were they thinking? [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] I'm afraid that folks would interpret that as a new 'finding' that suggests 'voluntary restraint' is of little consequence to reducing hen mortality......and THAT may very well BE the case, if few hunters actually practice VR.

If you are able to AVOID shooting hens...that's great! If you are NOT.....I understand THAT too.....we're ALL at different stages of 'one with nature', so to speak. .......and if you "never shoot hens, PERIOD".....it's admirable that you've reached THAT level of committment.

Who knows?.....if we (as a collective hunting public) had exercised more 'restraint' (in other forms besides not shooting hens) we might not be facing a 3-duck limit right now (whether one believes that's a good thing or not).

[ June 02, 2002: Message edited by: Anatidae ]