just outta curiosity: re, e-collar use...

[chip laughton]

B3, I think you are right and he just knew nothing was there. He has run this before but there has always been something there. So basically this sounds like it came down to a confidence issue, me being over confident and Zach not being confident enough. Maybe he was too confident he counted the bumpers and just felt I was an idiot and lost count.

I will put more bumpers out at second base and change my ratio of second base to cast and backs to casts.


Thanks guys.

[Meeka]

Marty is right, which sometimes happens

Your dog knows the bumper is where it is and is doing what comes naturally. he takes your initial line and on the way out figures out where the bumper is. yes dogs can do that. Mine did the exact same thing.

I dont think either that casting is the answer to your problem chip. More trips to the back pile is what I needed. How much is too much . . . there is no such thing. The drill you are doing can not work until he realizes that it involves a trip to the back pile on every send.

And while we are on momentum, that is what the back pile is for, IMO. If you have forced to pile, and you can do that with a switch, then your dog is confident in going to the back pile. You must maintain that confidence. Not only does the whistle stop create popping, if used too much, but with non collar training, that is the only real correction your dog gets. But it is seen as a correction, and will thus slow the dog down. At the first sign of popping and, I know now, at the first sign of loss of momentum, you should get to that back pile and use the switch every now and then.

Only what I have seen and where I have been has been the basis for this post.

[chip laughton]

You were all right.

I went this morning and again this evening. I ran him to the back pile more. This morning I was thinking about it and realized I had a small, very slight rise in the field I am doing the drill in. Enough of a rise where he could not see the pile. He knows its there but could not see it. So to simplify tonight I moved the pile up to the top of the rise where it was visible. There were a couple that were on the back side of the pile that he could not see. But he started to lock on the bumpers. If he looked towards the over piles I would NO him and start over. If anything he was more confident going towards the pile. When he got to the ones he could not see he was still holding his line. I did what you guys said and sent him to the back pile a few times before I would stop and do a cast. Then back to the back pile a couple of times. I feel it was a little better this evening. When I stop him for an over cast his casts have been good straight lines which I am happy about. I will see how it goes over the next week.

Is it wrong to keep doing this set up in the same area for a while? Or should I move it. Also, how far out are should I have the over piles? Right now I have them at 20 - to 30 yards. Too far, not far enough?

Thanks again.

[BrettG]

I think most of you have leaned toward the fact that both are of use when training. Lardy doesn't correct with the collar near as much as you think he might. In fact I watched a seminar and thought that he gave the transition dogs a tremendous amount of forgiveness only correcting on blaitant cast refusals or no goes.
You wouldn't want to burn a dog for leaning forward as marks are being thrown when trying to steady your dog. The hammer that hit the nail squarely was the idea that learning to control the collar and correction and time it to get the BEST results for your dog is the most acurate. Just remember no collar correction ever outweighs the teaching of twenty-five repetitions.