Major Change To Delta National Forest Proposed

[MSDuckmen]

One other thing except for a few nobody that is posting is from this area you may come and use it once in a while but we live here and nobody I've talked to around these parts is for it.

I would venture to say that you were still in diapers or not born when I hunted this track of land in the late 60’s.
In those days you could camp on the dummy line and we did nearly all of squirrel season.
I pass through or hunt the DNR no less than you do. I just don’t limit myself to it alone which you probably do. I have been all over those woods. Both big willow and little willow were great spots for years until people started following the gun shots and moving in on top of us.

You could fill two 18 wheelers with the game my bunch pulls from those woods. We were members of Home place hunting club for years before Larry decided to kill off all the beaver making DNR less productive on ducks. I have walked every bit of the Spanish fort area and killed one of the Deltas biggest deer from there.

So, What I’m getting at with this post is that it don’t matter I don’t live near it.
I wouldn’t call Belzoni on top of it either. It is federal land. Owned by all. We all should have a voice in it. Just because someone lives close don’t mean they have squatter’s rights on how it is managed.

[MSDuckmen]

Meeka great post but still have to disagree on the cutovers most of the deer and squirels I see and kill are all around them

You still don't get it..

"IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT HUNTING"

It is protecting a track of land from becoming a cutover..

[peewee]

Well from a conservationist stand point of view I have to disagree with putting DNF in a Wilderness area. Duckmen is right that the main reasoning for doing this is to stop logging. Although it wouldn't surprise me if other motives arrived in the future. Here is the bottom line the way I see it. The good lord put humans on the earth to manage the land. So it is our job to ensure proper management occurs on these forest lands. I have seen some of the management techniques on DNF. Some of the cuts I have no problem with and some I do.

What alot of people dont understand that timber harvesting is not always about the almighty dollar. Many times it is about (TSI) timber stand improvements. These stand improvemets help insure a healthy forest. A healthy forest by my definition is not just big trees, it includes the wildlife as well as early succesional plant species in many cases.

People can debate about this until they are blue in the face but I am on the side of coservation. Like Meeka said at the first of his post. The access in DNF is already limited. If folks spent enough time up there they would know the atv trails have been closed for most of the year anyway. They were open some during hunting season till the water came up and then they were closed.


Duckmen I have to agree with on one major point. The trapping of the beavers in DNF took away alot of the wetlands in DNF. Alot of duck habitat has been lost. A biologist here at work told me that before they went on the beaver trapping escapade that there was approximately 12,000 acres flooded in DNF. Now there is no where close to that number.
So if anyone on this board wants to get riled up about anything I want think that would take precidence over timber harvesting.

[crow]

What we are arguing is the difference between PRESERVATION and CONSERVATION for this particular block of land. I am usually very staunchly on the side of wise conservation, but occasionally there is a very good case for preservation (preserving a place with no manipulation by man). To have one small piece of pristine lowland hardwood preserved as an example of what the entire delta used to be cannot be a bad thing.

How in the name of Heaven will we teach the children of tomorrow what real delta woods were like? Show it to them in an old photograph or a textbook and say, "Man, I sure wish you could have walked in those woods!"

I do not know everything about this issue, but I do know one thing that is the truth. There is no way to uncut a tree!

I do agree it needs some study and noone should just go along blindly. Let's just not act out of selfishness or stupidity on either side.

crow

[tsbadb]

I wish we could off this age think no I wasn't there then but you weren't there in the mid 40's when our club was built either, and it's not all about hunting it's about manging the forest to get it's maxium return. And yes they the trappers killed off beavers on my side of the river also dried up one the best duck holes I've ever hunted now we only get water during flood years.

[MSDuckmen]

Well I have said my piece on this issue.

It saddens me that so many seem to be so selfish with their self worth that they are not willing to give a small portion of a very large track to a group that has proven to be successful on caring for wilderness land across this nation.

As with almost everything today it is all about me and what I can get out of the deal with little to no regard for the future of a resource and the offspring to come.

Until this nation cares more about what we have we will likely lose it all. Lets hope it doesn't come to that, even if that is where it is now headed.

[tsbadb]

MS thanks for you comments and ideas I wish we did see eye to eye on this but a least we live were we can debate about it no matter what side your on. Hope to see you at the Meeting in Oct. or Nov.

[Goose]

What would the DNF look like today if Larry Moore & his people had not aggressively gone after the beavers in 1995? That 12,000 acres of flooded timber would be 12,00 acres of dead timber today. Would that be better habitat for anybody? It would certainly be "natural", but I don't believe it would be better. What would be the economic impact of letting 12,000 acres of hardwood bottomland timber just die because beavers flooded it? I would guess 5 to 10 million dollars?

I have to believe that Larry Moore & his current staff are diligently watching after our asset in the DNF. They are "managing" the resource to the best of their ability, and sure, they aren't going to please everyone, but I think if you step back and look objectively at what they are doing, it is sound timber management practices.

And as far as the roads go, can any of you remember the 707 road under Alvin Womack's tenure? You couldn't travel 20 mph for the washboard. I think the roads are in great shape today....thanks to Larry Moore & his staff.

[Meeka]

Question - what would DNF look like if they let the beavers run amock?

Answer - Well, considering the terain of the South Delta, it is not actaully flat, it is a series of "ridges" and low areas that generally run paralel with one another. It is like this cause it has to drain, I reckon. Consider this if you ever get lost.

Well the ridges are dry and the low spots are wet in the winter. With beavers, the low areas would have low levels of water year round and be at the level of the dam in winter and wet times. And there would be a series of shallow, dead timber sloughs about 50-300 yards wide and some would be miles long.

Sound like a catastrophe to you? Maybe it does, but it sounds like heaven to me!

[Po Monkey Lounger]

"And ain't it remarkable that Poor Monkey and I are on the same side. Damn, we MUST be right!" (posted by Meeka)

Now, I've got to go back and reconsider ---what was I thinking?

[peewee]

goose as a forester I understand where you are coming from, on the other hand how much wood duck nesting habitat was lost.

[tsbadb]

Thank You Goose sounds like your down there as much as I am great post. If anybody goes to the South Greentree there are two areas they flood the second area is what happens when you don't have some kind of water and beaver regulations DEAD TIMBER!!

[Goose]

Meeka, if you were fortunate enough to spend any time in the DNF around 1993 - 1994 you would have seen beaver dams that literally ran for miles and weren't more than 18" tall in most places. The dams in the main bayous & sloughs were sometimes 8 - 10 feet tall and eventually took bulldozers to clear them. The duck hunting was great in those years because of the habitat created by the beavers, and quite frankly I hated to see it go; however, as responsible stewards of that forest, the US Forest Service had to do something to save that volume of timber from going to waste. Not only saving the timber, but I happen to own some property on the upstream end of several major drains, and it got to where we were unable to drain our property because it had to drain across the forest, so they also needed to open up these drainages to accommodate drainage from ajacent properties. It got so bad in the winter of 1994 that cotton fields along Highway 16 were flooded because the whole area could not drain. Something had to be done to open up this huge drainage that is bigger than just DNF, and that's exactly what the US Forest Service set out to do.

Larry Moore even got DU involved to install a series of structures in the main drains to theoritically be able to hold the water like the beavers were doing. I don't think these structures flood the same acreage as the beavers; however, they do keep water in the main bayous. All & all, I again applaud the US Forest Service for practicing sound forest management principals in so far as draining the water from the forest, and even going one step further in securing the structures to help recreate the diserable habitat that unfortunately had to be lost.

[bigwater]

damn that took a long time to read..

i don't trust that monger fellar.. he cheats at frisbee golf!!!!

[tunica]

damn that took a long time to read..

i don't trust that monger fellar.. he cheats at frisbee golf!!!!

you just jelous cause he beats you to those pickup potties you always talk about