Upland training

[Chuckle12]

Anybody know much about this stuff? I would like to train my next puppy as a "dual-purpose" dog. We have a ton of wild quail at our camp and I'm just itching to get after 'em. My dog will flush from heel, but wehave a hard time spotting 'em without me getting too close for the flush. I would like to learn more about it and maybe try some techniques out to get it in my head for the next pup.

[jsherwin]

When's the pup coming

[D. Walker]

Do a search on google about Julie Knutson she lives and trains out of Colorado - she and her husband paul wrote the book on pointing labs - I have one personally and would never have another one she is 9 months old and terrible drive - she is not very watery either.

My biggest experience with upland hunting with labs - is if you are going to teach them to quarter and trail then is that is all you want the dog for then do not do a whole lot of OB - too much control can be not so good - on the other hand if you have lots of control then there needs to be a mix of lots of hunt'em up - or find it - I love to hunt my dogs upland in South Dakots have been going up there the last three years and it is great - brings me to sit to flush these birds when they flush the go up quick and sometimes the dog as well - that is a safety issue with the dog - good way to get shot so practice sit to flush a lot - now for quail same thing the damn things come so quick that it is mind boggling - so just be careful.

The only upland training that i do is right before the season maybe two weeks of training on it - as I run AKC tests so I have to have that control.

Also try to put your dog on some quail they hae minimal scent - plus the yare small mouthing problems can occur quick.

David

[B3]

You might be the only folks around with wild quail.IMO if you want to quail hunt you'll be best off with another dog.. I can't imagine trying to hunt wild quail without a pointing dog. With a flushing lab they'll flush so quick you'll never get a shot. You'd be better off walking them up yourself. IMO a lab doesn't have but a fraction of the nose a bird dog does and to hunt wild birds you need a dog who's going to smell and point them without crowding and flushing the covey. Preserve quail would be a different story.

My impression is the pointing labs are used mostly for pheasants? If you want someone with a pointing dog to find your birds for you and won't even bring a gun let me know.

[Chuckle12]

You might be the only folks around with wild quail.

We got 'em, I counted 52 Monday afternoon flushed from just riding the roads on a 4 wheeler alone.

I have thought of getting a GSH and having him trained, or buying a "finished" pointing dog. I don't know enough about this stuff to do it correctly and if I am planning on getting another lab pup then I surely won't have the time to train them both sufficiently. B3, you've got some bird dogs don't you? You ought to come down to the camp and work your dog a little on some of these wild birds. I'd like to see them work. These birds have had no pressure other than 4 wheelers riding by, nobody has ever hunted them as far as I know. Monday I stopped the bike and had one flush 3 feet to the right of me only to land 20 feet ahead of me in the middle of the road and just sit there looking at me. They are paired up right now, I can only assume that they are nesting and that can only mean good things.

[B3]

I've got one GSP who was at one time well trained and even steady to wing and shot. She's probably pretty rough now since we've had no birds to work her but I expect she can find your birds and point 'em. I'd be glad to bring her this fall. She is a very close working dog and can retrieve fairly well-I've thought about running her in a hunt test. She'd definitely win any speed retrieving event.

[chance]

I will have to disagree that upland dogs cannot have the same amount of control that others in the hunt tests have. Come watch Upland Hunter titled dogs work in regular tests. Come watch the Grand after four tough days of regular testing and then the upland test. AKC doesn't offer any upland tests for retrievers so most of those guys never get exposed to upland training. A well rounded retriever should be an all around hunting dog that is as comfortable hunting upland birds as it is retrieving waterfowl.
If I had a buncha quail, I would have a pointer. Big flashy high roller. Winds 'em and runs into a point.

[Super-X]

Chance, kinda depends, a lot on the land and your likes......if you got a place like mine, I think a pointer might be a bit much.... might get too much range on ya, I'm thinkin a close workin setter or a couple a Brittany's. Heck don't know though my one covey or two I'd just about
try with the lab. Ya don't want to pressure em too much, just lookin for one or two to put in the skillet.
Now if a fella had a bunch a birds & plenty of land to roam over, well yeah
that big, hard chargin pointer sure is fun to watch.....

[Double R 2]

dead pigeons (early) when teaching them to cast and hunt; live pigeons later on. Got a book you ought to check out on it used when I raised flushing springers (Briar was an excellenbt pheasant dog in his prime). To have a really good upland dog, you need to head to KS, SD, IA, etc., to put the dog on LOTS of pheasants.

[gator]

pardon my ignorance, BUT, wouldn't a dog (lab) that quarters a field, change directions on a toot-toot from a whistle (if needed), hit scent, track, stay w/in a deadly range, flush, and SIT/STAY/BE STEADY to wing and shot be under ALOT of control????? some "might" say, COMPLETE CONTROL?

just curious.....gator

[B3]

What I was saying has nothing to do with degree of control or training of a upland trained lab. I just can't picture trying to hunt wild quail behind a flushing dog. Pointing dogs allow you to slip up close to the covey and get set for the flush. With pheasants a dog that points is going to lose birds because they run. I'd rather have a flushing dog for that.

I've tried quail hunting with my old lab. She's had upland experience with pheasants but I I did not enjoy trying to use her on quail after having hunted with pointing dogs. If anybody's interested there is a very well done release bird place near me. They are put out in the fall and are as close to wild as you can get. It ain't cheap but its a good hunt over good pointers.

[gator]

B3, i'm interested....VERY interested.

but i wasn't talking about what you have said.....go back and look at the posts VERY CAREFULLY...there was some comments about "control" or lack thereof in an upland hunter....i'm just curious, that's all....gator

[B3]

I think we are talking bout 2 different things but I weren't sure. I'm having a hard time picturing how I'd quail hunt with a flushing dog. It wouldn't matter how controlled he is. Without pointing it wouldn't be the same IMO. I wish quail were still around. My bird dog is wasted being a pet. I'm going to prolly turn her into a blood trailer.

[gator]

oh, i agree w/ ya for the most part....i honestly ain't been on enough good quail hunts to know for sure...gator

[Meeka]

Bill, is the place over there a place where you could have your lab walk with you and retrieve after the fall?