WNE - Feedback on Subsidies?

[SoftCall]

WNE – Let’s talk about government subsidies. In MS and other cotton states, farmers are compensated for a failed cotton crop. In some cases, there are some bad apples out there who are planting cotton on what has been bean and rice land for the past 15 years. It is obvious of their intent (in some cases). I am not profiling farmers who rotate crops – so don’t misinterpret what I am saying. Needless to say, my lease was screwed up this year because we had cotton on bean land. In fact, they didn’t even attempt to pick it until right before Christmas. Ducks don’t like cotton.

Last year was a different story – there was a failed bean crop. The beans stayed in the ground until this spring. Needless to say, we had more food than we needed. We also had substantial numbers of ducks and geese.

I hunted in Oklahoma for the first time two years ago. I was literally lying on corncobs in a field that covered 4 quarter sections. It was like self defense when the ducks and geese would come in. I asked my cousin what the deal was and he said it was a subsidy crop.

I am not knocking any farmer out there who collects a subsidy. The odds are that they are upside down on the crop at that point. I am all for supporting these guys and we don’t need anymore of them to go under.

What is the story on corn crops? What are the subsidy rules? Does the farmer have to knock the corn down or attempt to harvest it? I would assume that there is a significant amount of waste on the ground either way. Is it possible that these guys are incented by the government subsidy programs to leave corn in the field?

[MSDuckmen]

SoftCall,
Say what you like about ducks not likeing cotton but I will tell you this I killed a piss-pot full of ducks out of cotton fields this year. And have done it in the past as well, I don't think they use it to feed in more as a safe house/resting area.

If it had not been for cotten fields this year my numbers would almost have been half what they were.

Just a bit of food for thought,

Also would I recommend planting cotton for duck, (He11 no)... but you will find them using it.

[damnyankee]

Well I'm not WNE but I'm a damnyankee from IL. so here I go.
I can only speak for my parents operation and there insurance company. It is important to understand that Gov't. subsidies and crop insurance are 2 differant things.
I will try to address crop insurance first. My dad plants a corn crop, he then insures it. In the 1st scenario the corn never reaches 50% maturity, say a hail storm(big white combine) destroys it. At this point the insurance company comes out and agrees it's a total loss they cut him a check for the insured amount, say 140 bushell to the acre. He has choice to accept or deny the payment. If he accepts his insurance company requires he destroys the crop, plow it under, shred it etc... -OR- He can refuse the settlement and he's on his own, obviously this wouldn't be the right choice.
Second scenario, The crop reaches 90% maturity and a hail strom comes through and destroys or damages the crop. The insurance co. sends out a crop adujuster and pay Dad say 90 bushell to the acre because the crop is not totally destroyed. At this point Dad takes the payment and harvests the crop. This has happened several times to our farm and most of the time we have come out way ahead. But again this depends on the damage, if the crop adjuster thinks it's a total loss and gives Dad 140 bushell to the acre(insured amount) dependant on the insurance Co. he may be forced to destroy or harvest, depends on Ins. Co.

Now let's talk Gov't. subsidy, I can never think of an instance where the Gov't. will subsidize a farmer to leave a cron crop in the field, but there very well may be such an instance. Subsidies are either paid to the farmer NOT TO PLANT, so prior to planting season, or paid only after the crop is brought in. The first scenario is self explanatory, ie. We have enough corn here's some money to plant soemthing else, or not plant at all.
After harvest gets a little tricky. Our subsidy is based on our county's average. So if I have good ground I help shape the curve, if I bad ground that I know won't do well I'm trying to take advantage of the county's good average, like your cotton farmer scenario. A few years back we went through a severe drought on our farm, our ground is non-irrigated. At 30% of the way through the growing season we knew our crop was a total loss, however to collect the subsidy we still had to spray the crop, cultivate the crop and harvest 25 bushell to the acre corn, this ground usaully produces 190-225 to the acre. At a cost of $25.00 an acre to harvest(this is just to run the combine) it is a losing deal. However as defined by the Gov't. we had to make every effort to produce a crop. Did we worry about how the combine was set? Hell no we left most of everything for the pheasants. But the point is we had to try to get make a crop.
When we have a good year like this year, and make an average of 245 bushell to the acre and corn is at $1.40 a bushell, do you think leaving some or a what seems like a lot on the ground bothers us? No.
We would rather feed the deer and pheasants, as was probably the case where you hunted.
Hopes this helps.

[Greenhead22]

As long as the Gov't continues to give insurance money on cotton and $35/acre for no till cotton, the farmers are going to take the money and run. A lot of farmers are intentionally having a crappy cotton crop to get the money, because most of the time there guaranteed yield will be higher than what they would actually make. I also killed some ducks in a cotton field this season, and saw over 10K sitting in one for about 3 weeks. And contrary to most thoughts, a duck will eat the cotton seed, just going by what a biologist told me. You know things are messed up when ducks are sitting in a cotton field, and not 1/2 mile away there is an 80 acre corn field, 30 acres still standing, and there was only 2 ducks killed in it.

[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Greenhead22 ]

[LongBarrel]

Torch, THAT IS UNBELIEVALBE!

I know half the people on that list and those guys barely scratch the dirt. I know that they don't spend that kind of money!

Can you believe that OUR government pays them that type of money for failing?

If I failed to do what I am supposed to do at my job, I get canned! I chose my job because I knew I was good at it and could succeed at it. They should do the same. If you can't make a profit due to the over farmed, under irrigated, tired-a$$ soil, maybe they should try something else. I don't think the saying "if at first you don't succeed, try and try" again applies here.

That list is just plain scary.

[damnyankee]

Longbarrel,
Don't worry if people like you have there way we will all be dependant on other countries for our food supply. Depending on them for oil has been a great deal so far.
Go to your butcher ask the price of porkchops per pound, then go to a hog farmer and see what you can buy a whole hog for.
As for your job I'm sure your good at it whatever it is, but I'm also sure someone is trying to find a way for some third world countries worker to do it for .10 cents a day.
Torch,
Go bitch at the farmers whose ground you hunt on, bet you'll get a lot of invites back.
Touch a nerve? "Gosh Darnit" right people have no idea how entire communities all over the US depend on the money farmer's dump back into the economy.

[LongBarrel]

Whew Torch! I believe we hit a nerve with those posts. Ain't nothing new under the sun, except we aren't arguing with each other this time [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

[torch]

Damnyankee, I farm and recieve those subsidies. I'm just saying some people TRY to beat the system

[BrianB]

Isn't 4 quarter sections a whole section? [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

[LongBarrel]

Well if you want some sweet taters let me know.

It was "cheaper" for the farmer to leave 'em in the field than pick them. He got his check from the government and didn't pay the cheap labor Mexicans $10 a day to pick them.

He is also No. 1 on the list of receivers of government subsidies for his county.

That's where my problem lies.

[torch]

Longbarrel I used to feel bad when trying to collect from farmers because they had a tough time. But I quit feeling sorry for them when I started farming. If the federal government would get out of farming it would take care of its self.

[SoftCall]

BrianB - yep that would be a whole section and I thought about that. But it is divided by quarter section roads. technically - I guess you couyld consider that 4 fields. Semantics I guess.

damnyankee - thanks for the low down on the programs. Like I said - I am not picking sides on the subsidy/insurance issue because I don't know enough about it to have a grounded opinion.

It's not the Feds short stopping the birds...It's the DAMN INSURANCE COMPANIES!!!

I am just kidding - I'll let this one lay down. We have about 5 primary variables that impact our season. This year just happened to have prime conditions for a crappy one.

[torch]

If you guys want to puke on what kind of payments farmers get go to http//ewg.org/farm/home.phd This sight will show all subdidies and disaster payments for any farmer in the country. You can check by state, county, city or zip code. This sight shows payments from 1996-2000.

[WNE Driver]

Soft Call -

Sorry it took me awhile to reply as I have been out of town with work. First let me explaine that I haven't been actively involved with farming since my father passed on in '94 and we sold 3/4 of our farm. the remaining 100 acres or so now just has our gun club on it and the 30 or so tillable acres are cash rented to a neighbor. As the programs change from year to year, my #'s may be a little off.

Having said that, DY is right on track concerning the crop insurance and subsidies here in Illinois.

There are alot of things that he didn't go in to like the rate you pay ($$$$$$$$) for insurance if you are on a flood plain - if you can even get it.

Some other things that relate to the subsidies include the following -

Most of the programs are ran out of a county "ag extension office". The subsidized ground has to have a "corn base". This means it has to have been planted in corn within the past 10 years I believe. This stops a farmer from taking some pasture and claiming on a program. Improved pasture is tough to get right and not worth messing it for even one year. The program ground that is not planted is (also called "set aside") usually highly erodable ground - sloping, non-terraced fields. Usually subsidies were higher for this type of ground as it served to also control errosion, siltation and pollution. With the set aside acres there have been programs that allowed the farmer to plant food plots for wildlife [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] and this is what we did when we ran dove fields. All in all, the set aside ground is still usually worked. It will have a cover crop planted - alfalfa, wheat, rye and the farm still has to mow it 2 - 3 times/year to control any "noxious weeds". If the govt. determines that we are having a dry year they will sometimes let you put up hay when you mow it. Otherwise you leave it lay. The Ag office has inspectors, mostly recent college grads and a few retired farmers that do inspect program acreage. If the farmer is trying to pull a fast one, they lose all their subsidies.

My point being SC that even with set-aside acres, the farmers incur expense with them so the $/acre they mak on the program isn't pure profit.

As to the ground that is planted and subsidies are paid on after the harvest. The farmer usually has to use some type of modified farming practice. These are many times errosion issues. The farmer based on his records can show that he avg say 190 bushell corn, but the new method costs him 20 bushel/acre plus an increase of $20/acre in herbacide. The subsidy is to help offset that expense.

Finally, yes, there are those that "work the system" just like anything.