Feeding Ducks in Yankee Land

[WNE Driver]

I have noticed it lately on this forum that there is common held belief by a few hunters that the Fed and State agencies of northern states as a matter of practice “feed” waterfowl. Supposedly, this is done “by hand” by dumping large quantities of grain in State and Fed refuges. The states I have seen most often accused of this practice are IA, MO, KY, TN and IL.

Allegedly, this is done to hold waterfowl in the northern refuges for a longer period of time to afford northern hunters more opportunities to harvest said waterfowl. This alleged interference with the migration slows the migration and adversely effects the hunting south of the aforementioned states.

Does anyone else find these allegations ridiculous? I certainly do and here is why.

First, if the refuges were indeed feeding waterfowl in such a manner, the first waterfowlers effected would be those hunting around it. The waterfowl would have absolutely no reason to leave most refuges. Subsequently, the waterfowlers hunting near these refuges would have poor hunting and be the first ones to raise the question of why it is being done. Does anyone really think that the local hunters would not be voicing their concerns loudly and frequently if this indeed were occurring?

Second, the cost of feeding waterfowl in such a manner would be astronomical. The typical bushel of corn weighs 56 pounds and is equivalent to about 150 cups of corn. If just one of the larger refuges averaged holding 50,000 birds and they were fed an average of cup of corn per day it would equate to 20000 bushels for a 60-day season. That corn would cost about $40,000 before transportation costs and would equal more than 25 semi trailer loads of corn. I know here in Illinois, I am being told by site managers that they have been asked to submit budgets 10% lower than last year. Do you really think any State or Federal agency would support an extravagance such as “hand feeding” waterfowl?

Third, why would this be needed considering all the waste grain available in the ag fields here in the country’s bread basket? For some that have never been north of the Mason-Dixon Line, I don’t think you can truly appreciate how many acres of corn and soybeans are grown here. I personally know of family farms that work over 5000 acres. Driving along any of the interstates here in Central Illinois all you see is 100’s of thousands of acres of corn and soybeans. Illinois and Iowa annually battle for #1 in both corn and soybean production. I invite you to visit TerraServer.com and look at the aerials of Illinois and look at just how much of it is in ag production. Cost aside, why would any State or Fed agency pay for something that is “naturally” available?

Lastly, I invite anyone that still questions the “feeding” of waterfowl on the refuges to visit me anytime of the year. We will visit all the refuges, both State and Federal, in the area and you can see for yourself. Just make sure and bring a gun or fishing rod so we have something to do after you are satisfied.

White Knuckle Express Driver

[dos gris]

I find it ridiculous. I think people are just grasping at straws.

[h2o_dog]

I'm NOT ashamed to say I DON'T think it is so ridiculus. Who do you think subsidises the farming industry? Who has stored grain 10 years old? Who cares whether you or I kill a duck south of MO/KY? I think it is VERY realistic to think that privately subsidised (PETA,etc.) feeding of waterfowl could be going on in the far north (Dakotas to Michigan) and with the blessing of the hunters up there whose season has already closed, and who don't want those ducks to go south never to return.

One ridiculous redneck,
h2o_dog.

[WNE Driver]

h2o -

A couple of flaws in your thoughts -

First, PETA would have nothing to do with it if they construed it was going to in any way help hunters anywhere

Second, it would be very difficult dump corn or any feed in quantities sufficient to "hold" waterfowl without someone noticing. This would then cause a baited condition, shutting down hunting in the area and you would hear waterfowlers screaming in these areas! Further, depending on the hunter harassment laws of the state, it could lead to an investigation and prosecution of those responsible for dumping the feed.

[Meeka]

Me too, grey duck. We now have more duck hunters than ever cause of all the hype. We will never have the "perfect season" cause that requires perfect habitat, weather, water and timing. If one hunter is lucky, he may have several hunts a season where all these factors fall into place.

Most newer hunters have unrealistic expectations, IMO. Plus, I believe that migration patterns are changing and the ducks are as well. A consistently succesful hunter is one who has the ability to hunt a variety of habitat and locations as the conditions require. Most hunters do not have the necessary equipment, the dedication and desire, the places to go, or the experience to predict where to go when.

Lots, not all, of those I hear complaining, both here and in person, have limited hunting opportunities, limited equipment, insufficient dedication, lack of knowledge, and an inability to predict ducks or adapt to conditions.

Lots of complainers have a lease. A Lease. period. one place to go. They ride the roads looking for ducks. They logon to find ducks. You know who you are. You are having a sucky, not ducky, season. You are a "topwater".

I've got news for you. You can spend a lot of money on A PLACE in a flyway. It will have ducks for 2 or 3 days maybe a couple of times a year. If you have lots of money or luck, Maybe it will hold ducks for an extended period of time one season and you get to shoot them a lot. Well buddy, it's next year now! Times and conditions have changed. Where are you? Still in that easily accesible, highly priced duck blind. I hope you stay there and keep complaining.

I have news for you. This is hunting - not shooting. Them ducks is wary. Mallards are smart. They go where other Mallards are. They go where it is peacefull and they can't be disturbed.

If I want to disturb them, and I do disturb them on occasion, I have to put my walking shoes on. I have to search long and hard for them. I have to scout. I have to carry equipment 1/2 to 1 mile, each way. I have to hide. My dog has to hide. I have to adjust my deekes, I have to move, etc. When I get done with the killing, I have to lug it all back to the truck, then drive to wherever I came from. I have to fight to stay awake cause of the lack of sleep and utter exhaustion. I have to forego my afternoon nap, or hunt, or favorite beverage, or preparation of culinary masterpiece in the afternoon so I can go check out a spot. If you have not experienced this feeling of utter exhaustion, you aren't maximizing your opportunities and you probably ain't killed too many ducks this year.

There's lots of non-topwaters here. That's why you are logged in right now. You can't kill ducks on the internet, Topwater.

Want more, take GC for example, to learn his secrets you have to send roses, so I don't know if he has felt that utter exhaustion I describe. I do know he has the required intensity, caus ehe can whip my butt on the court, even when I was at 10% body fat (a long time ago).

You gotta go where the ducks are. He hunts in the marsh. He hunts by boat in the delta. He probably leaves the boat at home as well. he probably has shot a few in Northeast Miss. Those ducks have wings, Topwater. They move. If they like a spot, they will go to it. If they get shot at, they will leave. That spot will not be good until some more ducks come by.

To all you naysayers I say HOGWASH. I'm tired of all the whining. The ducks are here. If they ain't where you are, maybe you oughta switch leases next time!! Ha!

Is there a yankee conspiracy to feed ducks and keep us from shooting them, maybe so but they ain't feeding them, plus, c'aint no man control a duck. Do all the ducks have a disease? Hell no. Are the duck numbers down? maybe, maybenot. Who the heck can count that many ducks.

Are the numbers down where you are, I hope so. I'm gonna go find some ducks.

You want to find and kill more ducks, Topwater? Read Gordon McQuarie and learn from "Mr. President". I may ask some one to type a portion to whet your appetite.

[Meeka]

Somebody ought to email that to the banned guy, B_ _ _ _ Y. He would appreciate it.

[CaptnT]

Geeze!!!!!!! Getting a little cranky, aren't we?

The one factor that we have overlooked here is SNOW. The plains are not covered in it, so why would the ducks leave there? The season is over for that portion of the flyway, and there is ample food and access to it, so why fly south?

It is hard to believe that the northern states are feeding the ducks to stay there, I have to disagree with that theory. We have yet to have a good ol' ass kickin' snowstorm north of us to push the ducks down here. That simple factor, IMHO, is the reason we are having a below average year.

Still, where I am hunting I am killing ducks. They are coming from smaller flocks, alot more skiddish than years past, and less likely to decoy. I must admit the numbers are smaller than years past, but they are there. The mere fact that the abundance of water we have has given the ducks several alternatives to seek shelter. That's the key. The ducks can go anywhere for food, find the rest areas and you got 'em.

[featherduster]

Maybe he meant two gray.....

[Meeka]

Cap'n, it's the same story, dif. year. It is ALWAYS:

"they are still up north cause there is not enough snow on the ground"; or

"they haven't come down yet cause we haven't had the weather"; or

"they are still up north cause it is not frozen up there"; or

"they went BACK up north cause it didn't stay cold while they were here"; or

"they were here but the went on down to La. cause (a) it is too cold and icy, it is too dry here, there is not enough food, or the season there has ended"; or

"They are over in Arkansas because thier season has ended"


Somebody check the complaint department for me. If I recall correctly, last year they left cause everything froze up around the new year, the year before it was too dry, the year before it was too dry, yada yada . . .

What is a "dos gris" anyway?

[h2o_dog]

I'm not sure what set off Meeka or who his tirade is aimed at, but I am not complaining about not having ducks. HELL I'VE GOT DUCKS! not alot, but enough to keep me happy.

All I'm saying is that it is perfectly EASY for me to believe that PETA could go onto a NFWS refuge (or a DU refuge, or a Jack Minor refuge, or a PETA REFUGE, or a private landowners refuge) in Iowa in January (with the full blessing of the refuge landowner and NFWS) and PUT OUT GRAIN FOR BIRDS (not waterfowl specifically) to eat.

I'm not aware of any illegality of "supplementing natural forage" (baiting) in a refuge where hunting does not occur.

This DOES NOT HELP HUNTERS in the short term, because as long as those birds stay on that refuge they are not at risk of being shot by ANYONE ANYWHERE. PETA is VERY VERY VERY happy about this!!!! Everytime PETA goes to feed the birds they see the numbers and say "All these birds would be dead right now if PETA didn't come here and feed them and make sure they stay here where they are safe". Furthermore they video the situation and show it to potential tree-hugging supporters saying "Hunters will kill all these birds within 24 hours of them leaving the sancutary of our refuge. Please send us your money so that these birds will not die".

The birds stay in IOWA fat and happy.

This is not complicated.

[h2o_dog]

To further illustrate my point:

What if after the season is over I build 20 floating/submerged grain feeders, fill them up, and put them out in my brake around my duckblind.
Purpose: to imprint the ducks in the area to use my brake.
Legality: LEGAL - It's not duck season and no one is hunting anything within 2 miles of the feed.

If I can do that here what keeps Joe Sixpack from doing the same thing in the Dakotas and Iowa the day after their season ends in mid-December???? Hmmmmm.

[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: h2o_dog ]

[CaptnT]

Well Meeka, I can say I would share a blind with you, seems like you have your head on right about the dedication it takes.

I made the mistake of taking alot of "friends" ducking in 1997. That is a year I will tell my son/grandsons about. We were covered up in ducks, I personally limited out at least 15 times that season, and I am notorious for not shooting. It was a banner year, seemed like everything fell into place. We had a minor ice storm on Christmas Eve, the northern states locked up with snow and cold temps, and the ducks poured in out of the sky. We busted the ducks like nobodys business. It was the first year for my retriever Beau, and he was broken in right. There were days we ran out of shells and had to leave because the ducks wouldn't quit coming in. Those are the days we dream about in the off season.

Those same guys are calling me almost daily asking "where are the ducks? Why aren't we seeing them? Where are you going, can I go?" These are the same guys that I have demoted to "meet me at the dock" status, because I had to go watch them wake up, get dressed, take a dump, kiss the wife, then lock up the house, turn around because they forgot thier gun or whatever. Then they got smart, bought $500 worth of G&H decoys (sorry Captn, but your Flambeaus just weren't realistic enough), paid for high dollar leases, bought $150 duck calls and killed ducks without me the last few years. These are the guys crying "I've got no ducks". I say go back to the basics. Scouting is the answer, sitting in your high dollar lease watching the sky won't get you ducks, get out and sweat a little, or burn some gas on your four-wheeler.

I am an avid fisherman too. There are days when you can't buy a bite, then there are days they are jumping in the boat. I had the worst year fishing in 2001 than any year previous. Then the night of the meteor shower I decided to go for the pleasure of the meteor shower itself, fishing was just an excuse to go. That day I caught over 100 fish before 10:00am. I went almost an hour and a half catching them on every cast. Some people have never experienced that, so they have a hard time believing it. I was in the right place at the right time. The same goes with duckin'. They have the advantage of flying overhead while we are limited to the ground. With all that water to land, why go where some "topwater" is blasting away with highballs, some duck has been hovering for the last five passes and hasn't landed yet, and what is that black stick he seems to be sitting on? Why are those ducks in that spot where there is obviously no food?

Some days are diamonds, some days are stone.

[dos gris]

Come on hoss, you ain't that far from the state line.

dos gris = lesser scaup


[img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[WNE Driver]

h2o -

Here is what it has to say in the Illinois Hunting guide about baiting -

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>With respect to Federal prohibitions, hunters should remember that they MAY NOT:

Place, expose, deposit, distribute, or scatter salt, grain, or other feed that could lure or attract migratory game birds except crows, to, on, or over an area where hunters are attempting to take them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, if the ducks at Point A, go to Point B (Baited refuge) and you happen to intersect their flight plan, in Illinois you are inviting a ticket.

Furthermore, it states -

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Hunters should also remember that:

They are responsible for ensuring that the hunting area has not been baited before they start hunting.

They should physically inspect the field or marsh; question landowners, guides, and caretakers; and take other reasonable steps to verify the legality of the hunting area.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This dumps the ultimate responsibilty back in the lap of the hunter(s). I know people that have been cited and convicted for baiting both ducks and doves that didn't touch the bait or know the bait was sitting a mile away but were shooting birds flying "over an area" on their way to and from the bait. What generally happens is not only the baited area gets shut down, but all surrounding hunting areas get shut down as well.

I have seen the state do this not only to private land owners but on public areas as well. About 3 seasons ago, one of the state areas that plants corn in a sub-impoundment for flooding and hunting was nearly shut down. Excellent growing conditions yielded corn along with sedge, wild millet, foxtail and other natural feeds. Do to the activity of building seven blinds in this area, the State and Feds were ready to shut down the entire lake, 25 blinds. Their stated reason was that the activity had "disturbed and distributed" the seed of some of the voulenteer feed. This was not a new area, as a matter of fact it is one of, if not the first state WMA and been hunting in this manner for years.

Lastly -

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Hunter Interference Act:

It is unlawful to interfere with or disturb
another person engaged in the lawful
taking of a wild animal with intent to
prevent the taking, or disturb or engage in
an activity that will disturb wild animals,
with intent to prevent their lawful taking.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bottom line, someone baits to interfere with a hunt, they will be cited.

[Steel 3's]

Wow!! Those are some damn fine posts. I really appreciate the perspective from WNE Driver and Meeka.