h2o_dog's concerns about feeding ducks

[h2o_dog]

I'm starting yet another string on this subject, because I'm curious to know what y'all think about something that bothers me. (And the other strings were getting their topics confused) I am concerned that legal supplemental feeding in natural waterfowl habitat may have the potential to change migration patterns of waterfowl. I throwing out some possible scenarios:

This is not complicated.

Scenario #1:
Ot is perfectly EASY for me to believe that PETA could go onto a NFWS refuge (or a DU refuge, or a Jack Minor refuge, or a PETA REFUGE, or a private landowners refuge) in the Dakotas or Iowa (with the full blessing of the refuge landowner and NFWS) and put out grain for BIRDS (not waterfowl specifically) to eat. I'm not aware of any illegality of "supplementing natural forage" (baiting) in a refuge where hunting does not occur.

Doing this PETA is not helping hunters in the short term, because as long as those birds stay on that refuge they are not at risk of being shot by ANYONE ANYWHERE. PETA is VERY VERY happy about this!!!! Everytime PETA goes to feed the birds they see the numbers and say "All these birds would be dead right now if PETA didn't come here and feed them and make sure they stay here where they are safe". Furthermore they video the situation and show it to potential tree-hugging supporters saying "Hunters will kill these birds within 24 hours of them leaving the sancutary of our refuge. Please send us your money so that these birds will not die".

The birds stay in IOWA fat and happy.

Scenario #2.
What if after the season is over I build 20 floating/submerged grain feeders, fill them up, and put them out in my brake around my duckblind.
Purpose: to imprint the ducks in the area to use my brake.
Legality: LEGAL - It's not duck season and no one is hunting anything within 2 miles of the feed.

Scenario #3.
Mr. Smith farms 6000 acres in northern Iowa. Recently he has made more income from guiding waterfowl hunts on his property than he has from the corn, milo, and soybeans he produces. Joe decides to cull the low-grade grain (moisture damage or weed infested) harvest this year into a seperate grain bin on the farm rather than selling it at the reduced price it will fetch. After his guide service shuts down at the end of duck season he takes this grain and distributes it in the various duckholes on the property. His intent is to make the ducks familiar with his property, so that they will return to it next year, hopefully BEFORE the end of Iowa's duck season). Another advantage to this program is that his held ducks will definitely live to make the trip next year, since they won't go to MS to be shot there.


Granted, scenario 1 and 3 may not work if 2 feet of snow blanket the Dakotas and IOWA, but it wouldn't be beyond PETA to install pond warmers to keep water open to save their precious birdies either.

And I'm not suggesting that EVERY duck would be affected by this, but I do worry that over time, if more of this goes on, migration and nesting patterns COULD change in the future.

I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT NOT HAVING DUCKS!!! I've got a few ducks in our brake, and so long as my dog gets to pickup at least a mallard or two on every hunt I'm happy.

[h2o_dog]

Oh yeah, thanks for the responses in the other thread. But nobody has said anything yet to make me sleep better.

[CaptnT]

h20_dog, I think you need some sleep. That, or switch to decafinated coffee.

Maybe you would sleep better then.

The scenarios you propose would take an enormous amount of money, time and effort. If PETA was involved, we would have heard about it by now, it would be too good to keep a secret, and we all know how they like to toot thier horn. If these practices were being carried out on a large scale, large enough to turn the age-old Mississippi flyway into a deserted wasteland of duckless wonder, we would have heard/seen something about it by now. I am sure SOME of the things you are suggesting are happening on a small scale in one form or another in some place or another, but not enough to warrant the call to arms you seem to be suggesting. All it would take is a flight or two over those areas to confirm or dispute your claims.

I think you have seen too many episodes of X-files, maybe. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

[mississippi_duc_htr]

Could be all of the above but duck safehavens and feeding areas(ie refugees) are imprinted in there brain migration route and they will imprint this on their offspring that flys south with them next year. which means fewer and fewer huntable ducks as time goes on. Not fewer and fewer ducks but fewer "HUNTABLE" ducks as the years go on. Best thing I can offer you is email senator lott as I have done and see if we can find out anything "DEFINATE" on these issues.senatorlott@lott.senate.gov

[WNE Driver]

h2o -

Scenario 1 - The word would get out. Between ground surveys, aerial surveys, DNR officers chomping to write a citation and other hunters, it wouldn't be a secret for long.

Scenario 2 - See my other thread and above. Bottom line LOTS OF $$$$$$$.

Scenario 3 - Again, lots of $$$$$$. Keep in mind that dirt farmers are some of the cheapest, tightest folks in the world. I know! I am talking about my family! The three biggest lies farmers tell -
1. "I bought this seed corn jacket" BULL
2. "I bought this seed corn hat" BULL, it was in the sleeve of the jacket
3. "I was just helping that calf over the fence" Well, maybe [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Few if any farmers would hedge their bet on weather that is normally bad. Not to mention, most corn goes to regional elevators and little is stored on farms in todays farming world. This means he would have to transport it back to his farm.

[h2o_dog]

WNE Driver,

1> WHERE IS THERE A NEED TO KEEP SCENARIO 1 A SECRET??? The food is in a refuge. Can you spell r-e-f-u-g-e? I don't know how refuges up there work, but the ones in MS allow NO HUNTING EVER. Its PETA heaven.

2> $100 must be a lot to you. $100 is a lot to me, but I WILL DO THIS IN FEBURARY - BOOK IT. ($20 for feeder materials - $80 for feed)

3> I disagree totally. The guy I pay to pheasant hunt with doesn't have 2 nickels to rub together, but somehow last year he found 1000 bushels of corn to feed his birds during a blizzard. (He showed us pictures). We killed birds this year as a result, and we renewed our contract on next year. Many farmers didn't feed, and they lost their contracts because they didn't have the birds. Don't tell me the waterfowl lessors are doing the same thing!

I'm not obsessed with this subject, so I'm not really losing sleep over it, but I absolutely believe that the newly formed efforts of both COMMERCIAL HUNTING and ANTI-HUNTING are going to impact the migration and nesting pattern of waterfowl over the next 10 years. BOOK THAT.

[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: h2o_dog ]

[WNE Driver]

1 - I understand that we are discussing refuges and there is more than no hunting on them - They are closed to all traffic!

Most do have one or more "observation areas" that are open year round - even during season, but they just don't allow you to back up the Freightliner! - "Yep, got another load of corn here!"

The other item to consider is that the corn has to get to the refuge somehow!

People living around the refuge - "Hmmm? wonder what those semi's are doin haulin corn to the refuge?"

Most likely the corn is purchased locally.

Fella at the grain/feed elevator - "Hmmm? Wonder why the refuge/PETA/state is buying corn?

It is being hauled by some one as well.

Truck Driver - "Hmmm? Wonder why I am hauling 20 loads of corn to the refuge today?

Ya don't think that someone isn't gonna start asking questions or telling friends? Man, the small towns around here, ya can't have a rock in yer shoe without two village board members and the town deputy knowing about it!

2 - $80 worth of corn is enough to feed about 850 mallards for a week. How many do you want to imprint and for how long? Who has pocketbooks big enough for this on a large scale?

3 - Oh the farmers around here got money, they just aren't to keen on parting with it! I know of damn few of em that would want the hassle of messing with ducks. We have to pull teeth at times to get a goose pit in a field that is being leased from these farmers. Heck, many go to FL or TX for the winter anyway and consider hunting leases a pain in the booty.

[h2o_dog]

WNE Driver,
While I disagree with you on a bunch of stuff I have to respect your tenacity to argue the absurd.

Please change your handle from WNE Driver to NAIL DRIVER, as you are forevermore one HARD hammer head. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

I'm going to bed. Y'all have fun.

[GulfCoast]

Its gotta stand for "white nuckle express" driver. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[WNE Driver]

h2o -

you said -

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

While I disagree with you on a bunch of stuff

Well, as long as you only disagree with a bunch of the stuff and not all the stuff, at least you have more of an open mind than some about this subject! [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Also, the invitation still stands - Anyone, anytime can come up and we'll look for these "hand" fed ducks. We'll go anywhere ya want to go and I will even try to get us some overflights of any areas you question.

Gulfcoast -

Right you are! [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
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