Super light pirogue - 17lb 14 foot

[jdbuckshot]

Came across this on WWW

thought it would suite my needs well. plan on building a version of this, using some different materials and slightly different methods......

any thoughts ?

[mfalkner]

wow. I could see myself getting wet a lot in a pirogue that light

[teul2]

Link?
Is this it?
http://sawdustfactory.nfshost.com/herbc/

[jdbuckshot]

Link?
Is this it?
http://sawdustfactory.nfshost.com/herbc/

that is it.

the weight doesn't have anything to do with the stability of it.

flare the sides 30 degrees and make it 25-30" wide and i think it would be really steady.


here is my plan.

i'm going to use PVC lumber ripped to 1 1/2" x 3/4" frame - this will allow me the glue it together and be completely rot proof, going to use aluminum trim coil or possilby some FRP Panel for the sides and a 1/4" ply wood for the bottom. and taped with 6oz fiberglass and resign.

still doing some test on the FRP panels and how they will glue to PVC. my initial test are looking good.

[duramax]

the weight doesn't have anything to do with the stability of it.

Weight has a LOT to do with stability. Not everything, but it is a big piece. Having hunted and fished out of canoes and kayaks a significant amount, light boats (though fantastic for carrying and shallow draft) are twitchy. They react to every little movement you make. The shape of the hull does have more to do with stability than weight for sure. Take a Gheenoe for instance. A Gheenoe looks basically like a regular canoe and has virtually the same dimensions, yet you can easily stand up in one due to it's unique broad flat bottom with inward flared side. However if you compare a super light fiberglass or kevlar canoe to a heavier aluminum one that has virtually the same characteristics, the heavier one is much more stable.

That being said, if you are skilled and nimble with small boats like this or kayaks, it would be a handy little boat.

[olemissduckhunter]

Link?
Is this it?
http://sawdustfactory.nfshost.com/herbc/

that is it.

the weight doesn't have anything to do with the stability of it.

flare the sides 30 degrees and make it 25-30" wide and i think it would be really steady.


here is my plan.

i'm going to use PVC lumber ripped to 1 1/2" x 3/4" frame - this will allow me the glue it together and be completely rot proof, going to use aluminum trim coil or possilby some FRP Panel for the sides and a 1/4" ply wood for the bottom. and taped with 6oz fiberglass and resign.

still doing some test on the FRP panels and how they will glue to PVC. my initial test are looking good.

If you are going for super light weight, why dont you do a foam core bottom out of something like Nida Core, with a heavier Biaxial cloth on the bottom and a lighter cloth on the inside. think that would get you as light as possible while retaining some abrasion resistance. Just a thought, I know you're pretty good at building stuff.

[Denduke]

Great stuff... there's still hope for this place!

[jdbuckshot]

I've looked at the foam built boats and they have there place. but I really want a pirogue - something that is really easy to paddle. the shape and design of the pirogue is what makes it a great shallow water craft for paddling. one man and a dog and some gear.

anyone that has ever sat in a pirogue knows that the stability argument is not even worth making. they are tipsy and not for everybody. I've heard an old saying: forgetting to shave on one side would cause you to flip.

I've built a few and am in need for a new creek cruiser for turkey season. I live hunting turkeys from the backwater.

I'll get started after deer season....

planning on a 14'er hoping It can handle paddling out a buck deer....

[Denduke]

Using trim coil is interesting. Gonna add my $.02. Back in the 70s worked with some building contractor brothers in Gulfport that were building them outa 1/4"x 14' marine plywood with compound miter wooden block ends and 1x2s routered slipped down on the sides and for the side/bottom laps. There were 2 seats that supported the sides. The sides/bottom laid out and cut from the single sheet. Can't get that now so people scarf the bottoms these days. Here's the point... because the sides were cut on each side of the24" bottom they were 12" and when put together married to the end blocks significant skeen ( I thinks the word ) was created. I.e. When it sat on the floor each end was 3" off the floor. And!!! The sides are almost plumb not splayed way out like most that you see. Very stable and lotta free board! We used sheet rock nails and painted with latex paint. Had mine for 10 yrs had to glass the bottom. Wore the wood away from the nails. Although pic shows sitting on the seat I sit on cooler to keep feet/ legs go to sleep. I broke it in half in a truck incident. Can't find the guys would like to get drawing of the compound miter end blocks which made it strong and easy to build.

[olemissduckhunter]

I've looked at the foam built boats and they have there place. but I really want a pirogue - something that is really easy to paddle. the shape and design of the pirogue is what makes it a great shallow water craft for paddling. one man and a dog and some gear.

anyone that has ever sat in a pirogue knows that the stability argument is not even worth making. they are tipsy and not for everybody. I've heard an old saying: forgetting to shave on one side would cause you to flip.

I've built a few and am in need for a new creek cruiser for turkey season. I live hunting turkeys from the backwater.

I'll get started after deer season....

planning on a 14'er hoping It can handle paddling out a buck deer....

I know the foam boats you are talking about and I get where you are coming from, but who says you can't build a piroge shape out of some of the high-tech high density foam options that are out there for boat builders these days. Even if you just used the foam for the bottom and ply for the sides. that would still save you some weight.

Lots of people building fiberglass boats these days are using these foams, The foam coated with the correct fiberglass is strong enough to be used for 20-25' center console transoms. If you spend any time on www.thehulltruth.com people over there are using foam for a lot of renovation jobs of older boats in order to save weight.

[jdbuckshot]

Using trim coil is interesting. Gonna add my $.02. Back in the 70s worked with some building contractor brothers in Gulfport that were building them outa 1/4"x 14' marine plywood with compound miter wooden block ends and 1x2s routered slipped down on the sides and for the side/bottom laps. There were 2 seats that supported the sides. The sides/bottom laid out and cut from the single sheet. Can't get that now so people scarf the bottoms these days. Here's the point... because the sides were cut on each side of the24" bottom they were 12" and when put together married to the end blocks significant skeen ( I thinks the word ) was created. I.e. When it sat on the floor each end was 3" off the floor. And!!! The sides are almost plumb not splayed way out like most that you see. Very stable and lotta free board! We used sheet rock nails and painted with latex paint. Had mine for 10 yrs had to glass the bottom. Wore the wood away from the nails. Although pic shows sitting on the seat I sit on cooler to keep feet/ legs go to sleep. I broke it in half in a truck incident. Can't find the guys would like to get drawing of the compound miter end blocks which made it strong and easy to build.

this is how I built mine 15 years ago. I left it with a kid in Missouri when I moved back to MS in 08'.

I cut my end pieces from treated 4x4 on a table saw.

I may go back to my roots and build a traditional pirogue, but I'm going to try a "composite" build first.

[greenheadgrimreaper]

I am watching this threads closely, JD, because the PVC idea is a damned good one.

I've owned a few pirogues and always miss them once I sell them. I've been wanting another, but this time I'm really getting the itch to build it instead of buying it. Again, the PVC idea is intriguing. I want to build a "dugout" style (there are some fiberglass ones on Ebay from LA for $300 pick up) with some rocker added (similar to Paw Paw's Pirogues) because they would be more nimble, maneuver better and have more tumblehome; which would make tiny adjustments while maneuvering into position for jump shooting ducks that much easier and quieter. The kicker is that it will make the craft more unstable than it'd already be, and it'd be a light load craft, but that's what I want in a pirogue. The other issue is this that this type of craft would be much harder to make.

I don't like not having a pirogue, and I refuse to hear of not having a canoe. One day I will make one. They are a sportsman's best friend, IMO. Not to hijack, but the video below is one of me running a little 2hp gamefisher I bought from Anatidae. You could jump shoot ducks and then motor back up stream and only need one truck. With some modification, it was the ultimate swamp rig.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwJIPwYFteg




Somebody mentioned weight and Gheenoes. IMO, the factor of adding/subtracting weight to affect stability of a craft is so minimal that it should be way down the list of factors to consider, especially with a pirogue. Weight, or it's absence, is EVERYTHING on a pirogue. The reason gheenoes are so stable vs. standard canoes is because they have a reverse chine running the length of the craft. Old Town guides have the same concept. This gives the craft winning points in secondary stability.

I'd rather have a craft with secondary stability then that of initial stability, or, in the case of a pirogue, just throw out the word stability altogether and reassure yourself that she will roll over- she loves to roll over. That said, her owner must learn the art of keeping her from rolling; whereas it's usually the owner's responsibility to keep himself from rolling his craft. Secondary stability is why those who own Gheenoes, or any reverse chine hull, for any amount of time, almost always love them: They got used to the slight "tippy" feeling only to realize that they had to do something bad to flip her, and it's also why those who only tried out reverse chine hulls such as Gheenoes disliked them: Because they felt so "tippy." My next all around fishing hull will be a tricked out LT25. They are everything but a canoe.

[jdbuckshot]

material order ( fiberglass and resign ) will be ordered today. the rest of the material will be bought at the hardware store.

Still not sure if the side will be aluminum trim coil or FRP panel....


i go to Atlanta next week on bushiness - then i will get started.


i figure i can build it in two afternoons....

[olemissduckhunter]

material order ( fiberglass and resign ) will be ordered today. the rest of the material will be bought at the hardware store.

Still not sure if the side will be aluminum trim coil or FRP panel....


i go to Atlanta next week on bushiness - then i will get started.


i figure i can build it in two afternoons....

JD, just a heads up, if you haven't made your order already. I used this Epoxy resin to build my 22' Panga and it is easily the best value epoxy resin I have found so far, and I have tried them all. Also, Boat Builders Central is a great company to deal with and has fast shipping.

http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetail.php?prod=E_Kit

[jdbuckshot]

material order ( fiberglass and resign ) will be ordered today. the rest of the material will be bought at the hardware store.

Still not sure if the side will be aluminum trim coil or FRP panel....


i go to Atlanta next week on bushiness - then i will get started.


i figure i can build it in two afternoons....

JD, just a heads up, if you haven't made your order already. I used this Epoxy resin to build my 22' Panga and it is easily the best value epoxy resin I have found so far, and I have tried them all. Also, Boat Builders Central is a great company to deal with and has fast shipping.

http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetail.php?prod=E_Kit

3qtrs of Resin

a few mixing cups, brushes, squeegee, 50yds of biaxial 12 oz tape, $20.00 to ship it.

i figure this is enough for 3-4 pirogues

Total came to $148.00