Anybody else here this???

[jkmjr]

I was listening to Paul Gallo this morning. A gentlemen called in and said he was trying to get a 10 acre pond permitted in Adams Co. (??) He said he was quoted a mitigation fee of over $300K by the Army Corp. If I understood him correctly he got his Ms. DEQ permit but was told it was contingent on the "CORP" Apparently there are some new EPA guidelines causing this. He also said his local NRCS guy had no knowledge of any of this. Hopefully, I misunderstood and this guy will get some relief, but it sounds like another CLUSTER %@#K.

[jkmjr]

I got some more info. from a guy on the "BULL" I figured there was more to the story than him "Damning up a ditch" From the looks of the application it may be just a bit more than a "DITCH"

[stang67]

Do you mind paying what more to the story there is. With the new Clean Aater Act, there has been much speculation that simple manipulations of drainages to build a pond may actually require significant permitting and even mitigation.

[420 racin]

PM me some information about where, who, when etc.. and I will see what the deal is

[edub20]

I caught it on the way in to work yesterday and though it sounded a little odd. It starts at about 16:45 wit Steven talking about Guns then they talk about his pond.

http://www.supertalk.fm/archives/audio- ... 9&vod=true

[Bourbon]

The fee is not from the Corps. The fee is to mitigate or replace the wetlands being impacted. This is not a new rule, although the New Clean Water act may result in more areas being determined to be "jurisdictional" and thus subject to regulation from the Corps of Engineers.

I know a few years back, mitigation in New Jersey was around $250,000 per acre. So this sounds cheap in comparison.

[novacaine]

If its 2:1 or 3:1 acres impacted to acres manipulated that would be in the normal range. If he doesn't own additional land to mitigate on site (easement, restoration, purchase, etc), buying into a mitigation bank can get expensive. Several yrs back you could buy mitigation credits (in a bank) at $1500-$3500/ credit. Stream credits can get really pricey as there arent many stream mitigation banks around. Usually MDOTD creates there own for their projects but not many others around.
Sometimes the USACE wants you to buy into an established mitigation bank.
Sounds like he is planning a really large pond or ditch project.

[420 racin]

I believe it is something like 8000 stream credits he is being required to purchase for impounding somewhere a little north of 2000 linear feet of stream in order to create a 10 acre lake, according to the Public Notice that went out. Since stream credits aren't readily avliable they are pricey, somewehre around $40/credit. It's not an ideal situation for anyone, but it's the game we all have to play. I would imagine the folks that are tasked with enforcing these rules and regulations may not always agree with them, yet they have to abide by them. Sometimes it may be better to just do something and hope nobody calls you in, it's all a gamble, and can be an expensive gamble if you loose. Wetland impacts are not as expensive anymore, because there are wetland mitigation credits readily avaliable from several different banks, but stream credits are a newly "invented" item are there aren't many banks that sell them, so they can sell them at a premium.

[gps4]

i recently saw an article about similar situation in wyoming where a family is fighting uncle sam over threatened fines and levies for building a small pond on land they owned by damming a creek that was completely on their own property.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/us/re ... .html?_r=0

[novacaine]

I believe it is something like 8000 stream credits he is being required to purchase for impounding somewhere a little north of 2000 linear feet of stream in order to create a 10 acre lake, according to the Public Notice that went out. Since stream credits aren't readily avliable they are pricey, somewehre around $40/credit. It's not an ideal situation for anyone, but it's the game we all have to play. I would imagine the folks that are tasked with enforcing these rules and regulations may not always agree with them, yet they have to abide by them. Sometimes it may be better to just do something and hope nobody calls you in, it's all a gamble, and can be an expensive gamble if you loose. Wetland impacts are not as expensive anymore, because there are wetland mitigation credits readily avaliable from several different banks, but stream credits are a newly "invented" item are there aren't many banks that sell them, so they can sell them at a premium.

4 credits per linear foot....................is that kinda strong? Its been a while since i have dabbled in stream mitigation, it just seems kinda strong, but they could consider it high value i guess.

[Lazy Drake]

What happens if you just push out a pond on your own land without asking/getting permits? How do they even know?

[420 racin]

Typically it is because an angry neighbor calls. Or if you do something that can be easily seen from the road, but I woudl imagine they only hear about/permit maybe 15% or something of the work that actually goes on.

[novacaine]

Typically it is because an angry neighbor calls. Or if you do something that can be easily seen from the road, but I woudl imagine they only hear about/permit maybe 15% or something of the work that actually goes on.

That's probably the quickest way.

[duramax]

i recently saw an article about similar situation in wyoming where a family is fighting uncle sam over threatened fines and levies for building a small pond on land they owned by damming a creek that was completely on their own property.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/us/re ... .html?_r=0

He dammed up a river (that was not entirely on his own property). The creek runs through his property, so in his ignorance, he figured he should be permitted to dictate what happens down stream of his property. He's a moron. He broke the law by violating the clean water act. Case closed.

People want to beat the drum that "it's my property, I can do what I want!" I agree in some regards, but not when (quite literally) the affects have down stream consequences. Because he's a middle class, private landowner, everyone wants to stand behind him. But if he was some fat cat uber rich old peepee, or a large company, they'd be wanting to burn them at the stake.

[Blackduck]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy land and get it qualifies as a mitigation bank. Esp if you were about to fork over $300K. The EPA rules are nebulous and do a very very good job of impeeding development.