Really dumb question

[missed mallards]

Here's the scenario

Training:
Dog at heel. Someone throws dummy, dog watches to peak, then immediately watches the ground to mark the fall. Instead of following through.
I don't know if this was something he picked up this season (had 4-6 hunters and many multiple falling birds) or when. He did an unbelievable job for his first season, just had a few simple retrieves that made him stumble.

95% of the time, it's no problem, but that 5% just has it's own challenges. The problem arises when the bird doesn't fall within the 180 degree's for which he's "watching". Say out in front. It's amazing that he picks up the action in what seems the 180, just seems like he has tunnel vision on "that" area. Hence, following through with the mark would broaden his skills.

How do I train him to follow the mark from a to b throughout the arch? Dumb, but I can't quite get him to do it. Needing a little guidance.

[KarenKlotthor]

It might help to use a gun to point and give him something follow.

[Big R]

What Karen said +1

[EvanG]

Shoot more flyers, throw more shackled live birds. Give your dog a reason to watch the entire fall. A gun barrel can be no more than a distraction away from the fall unless the dog first has a desire to remain fixed on it.

EvanG

[missed mallards]

Thanks for the replies.

I just went to the RTF and finished reading something of very similar characteristics.

The problem is that when a gun goes off, or something is there to assist in finding the air born mark (gun barrel), he "thinks" the bird is suppose to fall. Hence, when he hears a boom, he quickly transitions from Sky to ground as the "treat" is about to be in focus. It's similar to say conditioning. Hear boom, see barrel, find splash/falling bird.

I understand why the dog is doing it. It's a short cut in a ways. in 90% of our hunts, it's effective. Now to address the 10% for which we have problems.

Thinking out loud here.
Well use the clock for all purposes

Place me and dog in the middle. Have someone at 12 throwing toward 5.6.7. This would in theory, make the dog watch up or follow the mark until it peaks overhead? This could be done for crossing shots also, where someone is throwing the bird say 10 feet out in front, yet 50 yards high straight overhead. I would presume having someone at 9 throwing to say 2 would be more ideal as the dog wouldn't have to stop to move/watch. With birds going straight overhead (12 to 6), he'd go back to watching the ground for the fall. A 9 to 2 would/should keep his attention throughout the whole mark? May try it out

What say ya'll?

[EvanG]

....I would presume having someone at 9 throwing to say 2 would be more ideal as the dog wouldn't have to stop to move/watch. With birds going straight overhead (12 to 6), he'd go back to watching the ground for the fall. A 9 to 2 would/should keep his attention throughout the whole mark? May try it out

What say ya'll?

Good luck with that. It's kind of like hunting ducks with an accordion. It does little to fix the actual problem, which is that your dog is not attracted enough to falling game to remain fixed on the bird all the way through its arc. If you don't have that, the rest apt to be proportionately ineffective. The reason dogs faithfully watch falls is that they are attracted to the retrieve object. The rest sounds like a nice exercise...for a dog that already watches the fall.

EvanG

[missed mallards]

....I would presume having someone at 9 throwing to say 2 would be more ideal as the dog wouldn't have to stop to move/watch. With birds going straight overhead (12 to 6), he'd go back to watching the ground for the fall. A 9 to 2 would/should keep his attention throughout the whole mark? May try it out

What say ya'll?

Good luck with that. It's kind of like hunting ducks with an accordion. It does little to fix the actual problem, which is that your dog is not attracted enough to falling game to remain fixed on the bird all the way through its arc. If you don't have that, the rest apt to be proportionately ineffective. The reason dogs faithfully watch falls is that they are attracted to the retrieve object. The rest sounds like a nice exercise...for a dog that already watches the fall.

EvanG

Gotcha. His desire lays on the ground, not in the air. This will be fun.

[Smoke68]

....I would presume having someone at 9 throwing to say 2 would be more ideal as the dog wouldn't have to stop to move/watch. With birds going straight overhead (12 to 6), he'd go back to watching the ground for the fall. A 9 to 2 would/should keep his attention throughout the whole mark? May try it out

What say ya'll?

Good luck with that. It's kind of like hunting ducks with an accordion. It does little to fix the actual problem, which is that your dog is not attracted enough to falling game to remain fixed on the bird all the way through its arc. If you don't have that, the rest apt to be proportionately ineffective. The reason dogs faithfully watch falls is that they are attracted to the retrieve object. The rest sounds like a nice exercise...for a dog that already watches the fall.

EvanG

Gotcha. His desire lays on the ground, not in the air. This will be fun.

Not a dog trainer and just shooting off the hip, but couldn't it be that his main desire is the retrieve. This is typical and good. In training it seems as though this is used in the trainers favor. For example, teaching steadiness. If the dog breaks he never gets to pick up the bird. Therefore he learns that the best way to achieve his desire of making the retrieve is the hold steady.

This is a bit different in that it is a challenge to get dog to understand that tracking through the air means getting to retrieve the bird. A drill which accomplishes this would ideally involve a natural consequence of not getting to make the retrieve instead of simply not being allowed to make it.

I guess it just seems to me that dog's desire can be fixed on the bird in the air, he just sees the best method of getting the bird as looking at the ground instead of the arc. The goal is simply to get him to understand that is not the case.

Signed, hypothetical nosy guy, non-trainer

[rboudet]

Throw then Shoot.