DMAP opinions

[jdbuckshot]

There is not doubt that the Deer biologist for the state are way over worked anyway.

we have changed biologist three times in the last 5 years. and NONE have ever stepped foot on our property, despite several request every year.

But - there is another local camp that as a commissioner as one of the land owners and the same biologist make it down to there camp every year two maybe even three times to "check" on things.

Funny how it works, but i'm done with DMAP

[Roach]

We have 900 acres and we join a club with 1200 so we co-op on the DMAP numbers.
Guess how many they told us to kill this year?
40 for us and 45 for the 1200.

[bigoak]

[420 racin]

Come on guys, it is just like with everything else, THE MAN knows best for you, don't ask questions, just do as your told....
Sounds like everybody needs to kill 40 does, no matter what, I guess I better get to shooting at my house, got a ways to go to reach 40

[mshunter77]

[stang67]

That's 85 on 2100, gump.

[Sbroadus]

No that's 40 on 900 acres for us and 45 for 1200 acre camp that joins our north boundary for a total of 85.

[turkeyman]

We are also on DMap. I was told that they usually say 2- 3 deer per 100 acres. We have 1800-2000 acreas and we are told to kill 23-30 every year. It works for us. Killing alot better deer and also heavier deer. We usually kill about 20 does every year and I promise you we still see a heck of alot of deer.

You gotta remember that most does have 1-2 fawns a year and they estimate they there are 7-8 deer per 100 acreas we have so if we kill 2-3 that leaves will say 4 does who each have 2 fawns now we have 12 deer per acres. It's ment to keep the population in check so you see more bucks but I don't know y any one would tell u to kill 40 on 900. That's crazy. But it works great for us.

[SB]

Pondman gives some solid advice. You need to make your DMAP biologist aware of your objectives, and if they are attainable, he can give you recommendations on how to get there. It is up to you to see them through.

I work with a double handful of DMAP clubs and have been a member of camps that were in DMAP, so I’ve seen it from both sides. I do know you get out of it what you put into it. Those DMAP properties that are involved generally get more attention, at least that is the way it is with me. Those properties I hear from regularly are the ones that I go see and call on the most.

I have thought several times it was easier to manage deer on public land than private land. That may sound counter intuitive, but it sure seems that way. How many members in a deer camp are deer biologists? Everyone member is or at least that is the way is has been in those camps I’ve been a member of. They saw it on TV, read it in a magazine (internet), or it has to produce big bucks because that is what is on the bag they poured it out of.

Deer management is not hard in my opinion; it is all about numbers, such as keeping the number of mouths in balance with the habitat’s carrying capacity, keeping the sex ratio in balance, etc. The hard part is getting the landowner/hunter to implement the recommendation(s). They often time want a bunch of deer and a bunch of big deer. That is an objective that is hard to reach (impossible most of the time), and this is where they may need to consider managing their expectations. I’ve seen properties set their minimum standard for a buck to be harvested at an 18” spread when 95% of the bucks across all age classes for their property never get that wide (based on their past harvest data), but 18” wide is that magical number for spread.

Some properties potential are limited by their habitat. The extreme situation is when a timber company that intensively manages their property for pine timber and wildlife management is a secondary or tertiary priority; it will be hard to get the deer herd to the level the deer hunters want a lot of the times. Since the hunters are a lease holder and not a landowner, they are at the mercy of the landowner. This can happen in hardwoods too when people don’t want to cut the sacred oak.

It is good to hear the different view points on DMAP. jdbuckshot – I can understand your frustration, especially about them not stepping foot on your property. I don’t know both sides of the story, but I do know most camps ask for a biologist to come for a site visit on a Saturday, and there are only a limited of Saturdays in a year. If they could meet Monday – Friday, it opens up a lot of more opportunities. And the earlier a date for a site visit is scheduled, the better it is for both parties.

[bustercat64]

I have been in the same club for the last 37 years and I think we was one of the first clubs ever to put on a management program and it was out of MSU and later became the DMAP program. In my opinion our numbers have gone down not because of DMAP but because the landowner has tried to remove all the hardwoods and honeysuckle. Being on DMAP helps us have rules in our club that everyone can go along with kind of passes the buck on to them not us? Our goals or to stop killing 2 ½ year old bucks and see as many deer as possible, the only problem I have seen is we are killing good 3 year old bucks and letting the bad ones walk. In the last several years we seem to kill a couple of 120 to 140 deer a year but we also kill several culls that age out at 6 to 8 years old that was killed by accident. I feel that if a DMAP club wants to be the best it can be it must kill deer by age not horn measurements and that might be impossible to do in most clubs.

[Chuckle12]

Ya'lls doe numbers must be weak. We hunt 3800 acres and DMAP told us to kill 120+ does. That's no joke. We had 2 separate biologists tell us that, actually one said 120, the other said 150. Last year they told us to shoot 90 and we shot 71. We are seeing more bucks and have many more mature bucks on the place.

[mshunter77]

[no fly zone]

DMAP or any other harvest program with biologists envolved is all a recommendation unless imposed by landowner for lease or club. Bottom line is you as a hunter have to decide what your expectations are. Higher population is going to mean less quality bucks and does... Period. The science does prove that due to browse lines, and year round food sources available for deer per acre.

Anyone who has hunted the mid west knows the sightings will be down, but you go for the quality of the bucks. IF you want to achieve that quality in bucks in the south, you have to take out the competition for food and amplify the food for the herd. The problem exists and is solidified in a lot of the posts, that bucks are still inferior and hunters don't see "more" quality bucks after shooting does. Well a few things usually exist on DMAP properties in MS that lead to this. 1) it's Mississippi , climate is mild, woods and thickets abound, harvest logs are not really monitored, it's a great breeding ground for deer. 2) most properties on DMAP are likely being managed for something else besides or along with deer, I E timber, minerals, or landowner who doesn't want all their game wiped out. None of these will allow for all the developments that need to be done to properly produce a well manged herd. Timber tracts are not in the business of hammering trees just to make food plots etc........3) the fantasy that once you start to manage a herd, bigger bucks SHOULD exist. Fact of the matter is some places just will never produce consistently. Just not going to happen.

At the end of the day, if you want bigger deer, and that is the long term goal, then you re gonna have to thin the herd , if a place is killing the quota, then it's at least making an attempt to give the living their best chance to reach maturity. That may not be what Everyone wants. Others like to see deer. But what is for sure, both rarely coincide on tracts that are not wooded north and south delta, river tracts, and few others.

Just my opinion

[SNEAKER]

everyone here has some great points. The biggest one, as mentioned, is telling your biologist what YOU want as a club. If you want to see 10-15 does and a bunch of bucks every hunt, then let him know. And you will probably just need to kill a handful of does for meat. You weights and antler size will drop, but you will see a lot of deer on your hunts. And you will occasionally have a mature deer or 2 sport a big rack.

I think DMAP is mainly a necessity for clubs trying to grow trophy deer. The beauty of DMAP is that you can start to catch a problem (mostly overpopulation) before you see it in the bucks antlers. IF your herd gets way out of whack, and you have a bunch of 4 & 5 yr old dinks, then it will take 5-7 years to get it back right.

There is some very valuable data in the reports, most people just don't know how to look at it. There's a lot more than goes into it other than him just making a recommendation of 40 does. Ask your biologist what all that stuff means that he charts out for you (% of does 3.5 or older, lactation rates, etc.). There is a lot of science behind it, and it gives you an early look into what is happening with your herd.

If you want your club to consistently grow the biggest racks possible for the area, then you shouldn't expect to see a bunch of deer on your hunts.

[jdbuckshot]

I agree with a lot of what is said.

but I don't think that you have to murder the doe population to have bigger bucks, and larger bodie sizes.

our food plots are hardly touched, and we have plenty groceries for the deer to eat, and we even plant summer plots. Just seems like if we continue to kill 40 does a year its going to be hard to see a deer.

and what about the old rut theory "the bucks are going to be where the does are at"

I really think that holds true.