how about an opinion or two on the limits.....

[Copen]

Chad,

Did not mean to ruffle your feathers man. I think DU is to much into the advertising and all the other BS. You do not see Delta Waterfowl plastering their name all over everything Avery will allow them to. I do not disagree DU has done some good. BUt. if DU was not trying to get some of the farm bill monies in 2002 then why did all the farmers just all of a sudden decide to stop supporting them? I am a Delta Waterfowl supporter and will continue to be. I know DU is doing some good up in the breeding ground, but my question to you is this. Why not put all the DU money up north in the pot hole regions and not here in the south where there is already ample water to hold ducks?


Idea!!!!!!!!Let DW focus on predator management and DU do all the wetlands restoration. Partner up or is DU against that? You could accomplish a lot more together.

Your pennies don't add up to anything........

Last time I checked my two pennies added up to $.02

Copen, if you've got questions regarding Ducks Unlimited, how about asking before you post all this insightful knowledge.

Just my opinion MR. MANLOVE, thats what the post was about. Sorry they did not agree with your DU facts.

Like I said before and I will say again. Opinions are like elbows and everyone has a couple. And these are mine so deal with it.

[Millenium Mallard]

Chad....I'm not in any means tryin' to start anything with you personally....the bottom line is though, land owners, generally speakin', are rich....cause it takes money to own property.....all these projects, cost someone somewhere and DU puts their name on them....they pay you don't they? These projects don't help Joe Blo.....landowners, whether they lease it out or not, benefit only from these structures.....and I can admit that I'm wrong, if indeed DU doesn't do these projects from Canada to the coast.....but, me, we, joe blo don't benefit from ducks sitting unmolested on these structures, or federal refuges, for that matter.....and if my $25 went to "any" part of some rich landowners private duck hole, then it pisses me off......that in itself is why I stopped as a chairman and a member.....It hit home when my next door neighbor close to Chotard told me that DU was coming in and doing work for him at no expense.....kinda hard to kill ducks on your property when your neighbor sets up a refuge with money you sent in for your membership......DU has changed its goal of being by duck hunters for duck hunters....to just being for the ducks and the rich that hunt them in my own opinion.....
St.

[jkm1272]

I would love for someone (Chad or any others that may have access) to find some data on midwest weather from 1997-2000 seasons and 2001-2004 seasons. I just want to see how cold it was during these years. It must have been freaking freezing from 97-00.

Since weather has everything to do with ducks in MS. Surely it is not because USWF annual duck counts suck. Where the hell are these guys flying. I was told by a biologist they fly the same routes year in and year out.

[Chad Manlove]

Chad,

Did not mean to ruffle your feathers man. I think DU is to much into the advertising and all the other BS. You do not see Delta Waterfowl plastering their name all over everything Avery will allow them to. I do not disagree DU has done some good. BUt. if DU was not trying to get some of the farm bill monies in 2002 then why did all the farmers just all of a sudden decide to stop supporting them? I am a Delta Waterfowl supporter and will continue to be. I know DU is doing some good up in the breeding ground, but my question to you is this. Why not put all the DU money up north in the pot hole regions and not here in the south where there is already ample water to hold ducks?


Idea!!!!!!!!Let DW focus on predator management and DU do all the wetlands restoration. Partner up or is DU against that? You could accomplish a lot more together.

Your pennies don't add up to anything........

Last time I checked my two pennies added up to $.02

Copen, if you've got questions regarding Ducks Unlimited, how about asking before you post all this insightful knowledge.

Just my opinion MR. MANLOVE, thats what the post was about. Sorry they did not agree with your DU facts.

Like I said before and I will say again. Opinions are like elbows and everyone has a couple. And these are mine so deal with it.

You are certainly entitled to your opinions....no problems there....it's just I've been dealing with mis-information about DU for the past 2 years and it's getting old.

I have never said anything negative about Delta Waterfowl....I am a member. I'm glad that you support at least one waterfowl conservation organization. I think DU is a great fit if you are concerned about conserving habitat on the breeding grounds. But that's your call.

The Farm Bill was a VERY tense issue. I did not say DU acted approprietly throughout the entire misunderstanding, in fact, we should have communicated more efficiently with our volunteers and farmers to explain exactly what happened. We did not, so it just snowballed into a big mess. Farmers were pissed at us, but for the wrong reasons.

We have scaled back our conservation programs in the south. We continue to send the bulk of conservation dollars to the breeding grounds to raise ducks. Yes, I agree...Delta should handle all predator control efforts....DU will stick to its original mission of wetlands and grassland restoration on the breeding grounds....No misunderstanding there. That is what is basically happening now.

Chad

[Chad Manlove]

Chad....I'm not in any means tryin' to start anything with you personally....the bottom line is though, land owners, generally speakin', are rich....cause it takes money to own property.....all these projects, cost someone somewhere and DU puts their name on them....they pay you don't they? These projects don't help Joe Blo.....landowners, whether they lease it out or not, benefit only from these structures.....and I can admit that I'm wrong, if indeed DU doesn't do these projects from Canada to the coast.....but, me, we, joe blo don't benefit from ducks sitting unmolested on these structures, or federal refuges, for that matter.....and if my $25 went to "any" part of some rich landowners private duck hole, then it pisses me off......that in itself is why I stopped as a chairman and a member.....It hit home when my next door neighbor close to Chotard told me that DU was coming in and doing work for him at no expense.....kinda hard to kill ducks on your property when your neighbor sets up a refuge with money you sent in for your membership......DU has changed its goal of being by duck hunters for duck hunters....to just being for the ducks and the rich that hunt them in my own opinion.....
St.

I don't take any of this personally....i realize duck hunting has strong traditions here in the south. Many of us invest thousands of dollars into duck camps and waterfowl hunting equipment. It is a big disappointment to go hunting and never see birds (or harvest very few). So...emotions run very high when discussing the current status of duck numbers, annual migrations, southern duck hunting, and Ducks Unlimited.

I appreciate your support in the past as a member and committee chairman. I would like to discuss your neighbor near Chotard. What kind of work? Is he enrolled in the WRP Program? I can assure you that membership dollars are not used in this manner. WRP is funded by the governement. DU gets reimbursed for restoration efforts. We are able to restore wetlands, at no cost to Ducks Unlimited. The bulk of your membership dollars were sent to the breeding grounds to help raise ducks.

DU is for the duck hunter. I would not be associated with any organization that did not support hunting or our duck hunting heritage.

[Chad Manlove]

I would love for someone (Chad or any others that may have access) to find some data on midwest weather from 1997-2000 seasons and 2001-2004 seasons. I just want to see how cold it was during these years. It must have been freaking freezing from 97-00.

Since weather has everything to do with ducks in MS. Surely it is not because USWF annual duck counts suck. Where the hell are these guys flying. I was told by a biologist they fly the same routes year in and year out.

Just remember, hunters in the south experienced some of the highest waterfowl populations ever recorded during 1997-2000. We exceeded 100 million birds in the fall flight (that was the estimate anyway). We are nowhere close to that number today. If I had to guess (and this is strictly a guess), based on a very poor mallard and pintail hatch this year, I would say we are close to 65 million birds in the fall flight. That's a big decrease in just 5 years. Mostly related to habitat conditions on the breeding grounds.

I think in low population years, weather plays a MORE important role...than when we experience high numbers. Not to mention, we are hunting adult birds that know how to avoid hunting pressure. Very few young in the fall flight.

The USFWS breeding pair counts in the spring are very reliable. They are statistically valid, conducted with trained biologists, and repeated over time.

[Wildfowler]

but, me, we, joe blo don't benefit from ducks sitting unmolested on these structures, or federal refuges, for that matter.....and if my $25 went to "any" part of some rich landowners private duck hole, then it pisses me off......that in itself is why I stopped as a chairman and a member.....

Well, the joe blo duck hunter should be more concerned about the fact that some portion of your $25 contribution does indeed go to preserving waterfowl breeding grounds. That's where you are personally going to expect the benefit. You should expect your dollars to help new life begin on the breeding grounds. Sure, maybe these lands are not being managed the their fullest potential by DU. Maybe DW could do a better job of producing more ducks on these grounds. But the fact remains that the dirt is still there and not plowed under into some more marginal farm land that does not grow ducks.

I wonder if Chad could tell us what percent of our $25 memberships actually make it to the breeding grounds? I'm guessing that all sources of DU revenues are distributed in the same way, but I don't know that for a fact. If I ever learned that my none of my $25 never got to the breeding ground, I might be singing a different tune. But I take comfort in knowing that some portion of my money is possibly being utilized by breeding ducks.

Based on your complaints, it really sounds like you've got the wrong idea about what DU is supposed to do for you. I've never considered that my annual $25 contribution should entitle me to be able to hunt on these private DU sponsored duck holes. How does the average joe blo duckhunter arrive at that expectation?

Heck, if you didn't have these ducks sitting unmolested sitting on these structures, where do you think those ducks would be? Why do you think they are sitting there in the first place? If they get their booty shot off in every hole they land in, they will leave the country. The ducks do not sit on these structures 24/7 for the entire duck season. They do move around, and the average joe blo hunter may have to try something different to kill them, but it can be done.


I wonder how many guys on this board would ever consider paying to lease a duck hole in their hunting area, but never shoot it? I'm not doing it either, so don't accuse me of being hypocritical, I don't have the means of doing it right now, but it is something that's necessary to help keep ducks in your area.

The one thing that all the well to do duck clubs have in common in this state is that they have incorporated designated rest areas/restrictive shooting times into their program.

[Chad Manlove]

I wonder if Chad could tell us what percent of our $25 memberships actually make it to the breeding grounds? I'm guessing that all sources of DU revenues are distributed in the same way, but I don't know that for a fact. If I ever learned that my none of my $25 never got to the breeding ground, I might be singing a different tune. But I take comfort in knowing that some portion of my money is possibly being utilized by breeding ducks.

I'll do my best.....Proceeds from events and membership will approach $35 - 40 million each year for Ducks Unlimited. DU will direct anywhere from $15 - 20 million to the breeding grounds each year (that includes US and Canadian breeding grounds). So, it's close to 50% of grassroots dollars goes directly to help waterfowl on the breeding grounds, but that's probably a conservative estimate.

[Copen]

Thanks for trying to inform me Chad. But shouldn't a DU biologist be up on the breeding grounds trying to help out. j/k


To be honest we are covered up with ducks and it is not because of anything DU or DW has done, but the fact that we have a great spot and work hard to maintain it. But as MM wrote private land is by no means cheap and even as bad as the duck hunting has been the last few years it is amazing what people will pay for duck hunting land.

By the way Chad. I am glad to see DU finally got their heads out of their booty and decided to put the majority of the money where it needs to be. And for all the misconceptions, DU created those for themselves

[Chad Manlove]

Thanks for trying to inform me Chad. But shouldn't a DU biologist be up on the breeding grounds trying to help out. j/k


To be honest we are covered up with ducks and it is not because of anything DU or DW has done, but the fact that we have a great spot and work hard to maintain it. But as MM wrote private land is by no means cheap and even as bad as the duck hunting has been the last few years it is amazing what people will pay for duck hunting land.

By the way Chad. I am glad to see DU finally got their heads out of their booty and decided to put the majority of the money where it needs to be. And for all the misconceptions, DU created those for themselves

Good point.....I'd love to be on the breeding grounds in April, May, and June. It is a very special place that time of year. Everyone needs to take some time off and visit the Prairie Pothole Region during the spring. It is awesome.

Demand is everything. Even with lackluster hunting the past couple of years, people still want to hunt and they are willing to pay for it. Until that changes, prices will remain high. Hunting pressure is intense. Let's face it...duck hunting is addictive.

DU is not perfect. But I can honestly say that our staff are some of the most dedicated duck hunters and conservationists anywhere. We are trying to do the right thing for ducks.

[SWAG]

Good topic !

[sportsman450]

I wonder if Chad could tell us what percent of our $25 memberships actually make it to the breeding grounds? I'm guessing that all sources of DU revenues are distributed in the same way, but I don't know that for a fact. If I ever learned that my none of my $25 never got to the breeding ground, I might be singing a different tune. But I take comfort in knowing that some portion of my money is possibly being utilized by breeding ducks.

I'll do my best.....Proceeds from events and membership will approach $35 - 40 million each year for Ducks Unlimited. DU will direct anywhere from $15 - 20 million to the breeding grounds each year (that includes US and Canadian breeding grounds). So, it's close to 50% of grassroots dollars goes directly to help waterfowl on the breeding grounds, but that's probably a conservative estimate.

This model doesn't reflect the money that comes in from corporate sponsors and other large sources of revenue. Does none of that money go to the breeding areas?

[Millenium Mallard]

Millenium Mallard wrote:
but, me, we, joe blo don't benefit from ducks sitting unmolested on these structures, or federal refuges, for that matter.....and if my $25 went to "any" part of some rich landowners private duck hole, then it pisses me off......that in itself is why I stopped as a chairman and a member.....


Wildfowler Quote: "Well, the joe blo duck hunter should be more concerned about the fact that some portion of your $25 contribution does indeed go to preserving waterfowl breeding grounds."

MM: I understand that a portion of it does....that's why I helped raise 10's of thousands of dollars for DU over the last 10+ years....

Wildfowler quote: "I wonder if Chad could tell us what percent of our $25 memberships actually make it to the breeding grounds?"

From DU's webpage: "Year in and year out, DU strives to spend 80 percent of its revenue directly on conservation. Only four percent goes to administration."How much of each dollar donated goes to Canada and/or Mexico?

23% to Canada; 4% to Mexico (based on total dollars raised in FY98).


Wildfowler Quote: "Based on your complaints, it really sounds like you've got the wrong idea about what DU is supposed to do for you. I've never considered that my annual $25 contribution should entitle me to be able to hunt on these private DU sponsored duck holes. How does the average joe blo duckhunter arrive at that expectation?"

MM: I don't have the wrong idea at all....I didn't say that I feel jilted about not hunting on DU's holes, my problem is that if we (DU) are going to spend money, manpower, or paid employees of DU (which is Chad Manlove) on any project south of Canada, then their ought to be hunting opportunities for the public.....DU's main objective is to protect, enhance, and secure breeding wetlands for waterfowl.....to me, that's in Canada....not investing sponsor and member dollars meant for such in Mr. Rich Guy's private waterfowl compound 10 miles up the road from Mahanna.....Most of the people that are using DU's resources for these privately owned projects can finance the projects themselves.....they are just using the system at the low boys expense....no different than that of your local scum of the earth that abuse medicaid and every other federal and state welfare.....this may not always be the case, but I assure you that its happening more than the average member knows about......

Wildfowler Quote: "Heck, if you didn't have these ducks sitting unmolested sitting on these structures, where do you think those ducks would be? Why do you think they are sitting there in the first place? If they get their booty shot off in every hole they land in, they will leave the country. The ducks do not sit on these structures 24/7 for the entire duck season. They do move around, and the average joe blo hunter may have to try something different to kill them, but it can be done."

MM: That's what this thread started discussing....ducks are becoming nocturnal....and some, never leave the sactuary of refuges unless there is no alternative or its just a mistake....it's been said time and time again on here, ducks are creatures of habit and necessity....as long as their is adequate food, shelter, and protection, why would they go anywhere else? Between DU and the Federal/State refuge systems, ducks can literally go from Canada to the Louisiana coast without ever having to encounter hunters....each year, more ducks are learning the ropes.....DU has changed its concepts to trying to keep the ducks safe and fat in order to send them back to the breeding grounds in good order.....and they are doing a great job it seems.....this is no secret.....

My .02
St.


[/quote]

[jkm1272]

Been gone for two days. I have a question for Chad. If the fall flight from 97-2000 was near 100 million, and todays is closer to 65 million then why do we still have a 6 duck limit.

I know that it may be over long term goals, but if we slacked up for a few years wouldn't that help.

Some people will say that not everyone kills six ducks so it does not hurt the population even though it is down. IF that is the case lets make the limit 10 for those who can kill them.

Just curious on why we are not lowering the limit

Thanks