Need some advice from a more experienced trainer

[greenhead23]

I know y'all have probably seen this question plenty of times but I could use the help so I figured I'd ask. I have a 12 week old male black lab pup that I have been working with sense 7-weeks old. He's doing well as far as obedience is concerned but his retrieving is very inconsistent. Some days he does beautifully and returns every throw, some days he'll return a few and then lose interest, and some times he'll grab it and run the other way. This is my first attempt at training a pup so I'm at loss of what to do. Does anyone have any advice to help fix this?

[dwgeddie]

I know y'all have probably seen this question plenty of times but I could use the help so I figured I'd ask. I have a 12 week old male black lab pup that I have been working with sense 7-weeks old. He's doing well as far as obedience is concerned but his retrieving is very inconsistent. Some days he does beautifully and returns every throw, some days he'll return a few and then lose interest, and some times he'll grab it and run the other way. This is my first attempt at training a pup so I'm at loss of what to do. Does anyone have any advice to help fix this?

He is young so don't try to burn him out . We start training puppies at 12 weeks of age . I had some puppies that was retrieving real duck from the water at 9 weeks of age . Good obedient goes a long way . Remember at 5 months of age , puppy month is tender because of new teeths . Be real careful . If the is bring it back 3 times in a roll just quit . Then next time increase by 1 over 2 more . Keep the pup interested in retrieving. .

[B3]

If pup is not showing tremendous desire then I would back off obedience in the field. Do OB separately in the yard. I would restrain pup in a sitting position but release him on his name while bird or bumper is in the air. Once he gets the bumper in mouth start running away calling his name and acting like a fool. He will chase after you. once he gets to you don't take it away immediately. Praise,Praise,Praise and then gently get him to give it up. Only do a few marks per session so you put him away wanting more.

[EvanG]

Very good advice so far. In addition, get him on real birds ASAP. Limit throws to short distances for a while, and just throw 2 or 3 per session.

click on image

EvanG

[99beers]

Very good advice so far. In addition, get him on real birds ASAP. Limit throws to short distances for a while, and just throw 2 or 3 per session.

click on image

EvanG

more spam...........

2 or 3 evan? really............not much fun in that. How about saying until he right before he gets bored, and still wanting a bit more.........simple. 2 or 3............lol.......

[EvanG]

more spam...........

2 or 3 evan? really............not much fun in that. How about saying until he right before he gets bored, and still wanting a bit more.........simple. 2 or 3............lol.......

So, you've awakened from your stupor long enough to tap out this inaccurate, useless little entry. Someday you'll surprise me by writing something of value, or even remotely accurate. But I'm patient. It hasn't happened yet.



EvanG

[KarenKlotthor]

Who ever you are, 99beer, go drink some more, if you have nothing to ad to the OP's questions, just do not post. Evan, thank you for posting on this site. It is very helpfull to new comers. I have been at this a long time, but still get useful information from your answers to the questions asked.
as for as the OP, let the pup be a pup. Make it all about fun with OB mixed in.

[EvanG]

as for as the OP, let the pup be a pup. Make it all about fun with OB mixed in.

That is some of the best advice anyone could offer! Too often we get a nice hot pup, and we just can't resist pushing him or her along. They eat it up for a while, and then we wonder later on what happened. The first 6 months or so your obedience can be shaped through operant conditioning. Passive, teaching-oriented. In the meantime, lots of real birds!

"Leave something in it for the dog." ~ Rex Carr

EvanG

[99beers]

Make sure you continue to quote Rex, cause you got nothing original to offer Evan.

Let your pup take you on the journey. They are all different and will react different. don't let someone tell you to only throw the pup 2 or 3 dummys to retrieve. Watch you dog, and when he starts to bore, stop. Put him up wanting a little more, whether its 3 or 20............

If your pup likes to go long, and you have a helper, by all means stretch the little bugger out, but make sure he is always successful........or mostly. Help when you have to.

Age plays a big role, and the amount of training you do, that leads to progression in training. One size doesn't fit all, regardless of what the local spammer says.

The main thing is, have fun, make sure your pup is having fun, and enjoy. Don't fret the "you will ruin" your dog crap from having fun. Only dogs I have seen ruined are from folks that are very heavy on the collar pressure in the worst timing ever..........

And, birds are important to introduce, but not necessary for everyday training. If the desire is there to retrieve, it doesn't matter what you throw for them, they will retrieve. You don't need all the fancy training equipment to train a well balanced duck dog, nor a stuff in your face book or video. Get with a local and competent pro, toss some birds and help them, and they will give you all the info you need...........

Peace.........

[Cat Squirrel]

Not that i know anything, but with a 12 week old pup, I also generally limit retrieves to 2 or 3 and put them up wanting more.

I prefer to introduce birds in a very controlled setting. My favorite place to do so is in a large baseball dugout at a local ball field. I like to introduce the birds and then go back to mostly bumpers until they've been FF'ed. (I do mix in an occasional bird in a controlled setting)

Don't understand the negative comments directed at Evan either. I don't use his system at all and I've respectfully disagreed with him publicly a few times, but as far as I can tell, he's trying to help.

[EvanG]

Not that i know anything, but with a 12 week old pup, I also generally limit retrieves to 2 or 3 and put them up wanting more.

I prefer to introduce birds in a very controlled setting. My favorite place to do so is in a large baseball dugout at a local ball field. I like to introduce the birds and then go back to mostly bumpers until they've been FF'ed. (I do mix in an occasional bird in a controlled setting)

Don't understand the negative comments directed at Evan either. I don't use his system at all and I've respectfully disagreed with him publicly a few times, but as far as I can tell, he's trying to help.

I've always enjoyed our dialogue, CS. Whether or not we see things the same way, you have indeed always been respectful, and that's how it should be.

Behaviorists refer to our practice of 2-3 retrieves with a puppy, and then putting him away while he's still eager to go, as "imprinting"; a shaping of the dog's attitude toward retrieving. Day by day the pup will approach his work in the field with greater and more eager anticipation. Obviously, there are pups that would not become bored with more retrieves. But that's not the point of imprinting. We want to do all we are able in our work with the pup to assure the best outcome.

One point behaviorists seem to universally agree upon is that imprinting is irreversible: The imprinted knowledge is retained for life. Of all forms of learning, imprinting is the least likely to be forgotten or unlearned. That can certainly happen in ways we do not desire, such as wearing a puppy down with too many retrieves, or by throwing too many marks that are too hard to find when they're young. What may become imprinted is low confidence in the pup's own ability, or that retrieving is mundane.

EvanG

[Tedl10]

I have a 13 week old male black and he responded best to me running away and calling him like crazy. Once he gets close to you, stop and praise him like he is the best dog in the world. I used a long check cord to stay in control if he decided to 'play'. Another thing that made a big difference around the 10 week mark was I took away his chew toys.

[greenheadgrimreaper]

Make sure you continue to quote Rex, cause you got nothing original to offer Evan.

Let your pup take you on the journey. They are all different and will react different. don't let someone tell you to only throw the pup 2 or 3 dummys to retrieve. Watch you dog, and when he starts to bore, stop. Put him up wanting a little more, whether its 3 or 20............

If your pup likes to go long, and you have a helper, by all means stretch the little bugger out, but make sure he is always successful........or mostly. Help when you have to.

Age plays a big role, and the amount of training you do, that leads to progression in training. One size doesn't fit all, regardless of what the local spammer says.

The main thing is, have fun, make sure your pup is having fun, and enjoy. Don't fret the "you will ruin" your dog crap from having fun. Only dogs I have seen ruined are from folks that are very heavy on the collar pressure in the worst timing ever..........

And, birds are important to introduce, but not necessary for everyday training. If the desire is there to retrieve, it doesn't matter what you throw for them, they will retrieve. You don't need all the fancy training equipment to train a well balanced duck dog, nor a stuff in your face book or video. Get with a local and competent pro, toss some birds and help them, and they will give you all the info you need...........

Peace.........

99 beers, I am new at this. Specifically,how do I know if the pup is getting bored? What will he do or not do? How will he act? Please lay out some specifics for me. Thanks.

I hope you get the jest of what I am saying. If Evan's advice is too limited in his recommendation of 2-3 throws to start off with (which is a common, accepted and proven theory- regardless of your idiotic and insulting attitude towards it) then your entire post is a recipe for disaster for a newcomer in its vagueness and ambiguity.

Stretch the little bugger out? Really? For a beginner? I've watched that happen too many times- no thanks. And you continue on to say make sure he's successful, mostly... Again- vague and ambiguous.

I see a lot of references made about local spammers and "ruin your dog" talk coming from one person- you.

It's obvious to anyone reading who does not know (nor give a good damn) whether or not if you and Evan G. have a history- that you got a chip on your shoulder.

To the OP- in my humble opinion I'd disregard this fellows advice. Every bit of it. I just rinsed Bodoc's crap out of his kennel that makes more sense than this jibberish.

Throw the pup a few marks and put him up. Do obedience before training. Fun bumpers and making one helluva commotion over retrieving will never hurt. You can "reel him in" later on. Make
him go wild eyed when it comes time for retrieving. It also helps if you get a little wild eyed too- have fun and make damn sure you really REALLY are having fun.

Just a guess, I maybe wrong, but it sounds to me like you're throwing the pup too many marks. Literally, 3 marks and a couple fun bumpers and put him up. Keep it loose. You ain't training for a living so you have the luxury of taking your time. And he ain't gonna be ready for duck season- so kick back and shape that dude into showboatin'-make-you-look-good- kind of dog. Time and a good proven method is how you do it.

[BrettG]

I had a nice response for 99beers but am feeling I don't need to feed the stray dogs today.

With a young pup, limiting retrieves is the best way to build desire. Put the pup away wanting more. I always like to plan retrieving sessions and start off by crating pup for 15 minutes followed by a session of several retrieves and then I crate pup again for 15 minutes. I usually do at least 1 session during the day where I put pup in truck and go out to the my farm (6 mile trip) do a session, followed by some crate time, then end with a play session around one of the ponds. This has worked out great, currently my 5 month old pup will run as many marks as I will throw her. She is doing big swims, showing awesome courage and boldness, land/water/land marks, 100+ yd land marks.

[munyoz70]

I read alot and watched alot of videos before during and currently training my dog along with having several great friends to bounce questions off. Here is what I have gathered.

They say listen to your dog and he will tell you what he is thinking. This didnt make sense until I got Charlie, but with very little time youll know your pup just as well as another family member and just like them you can tell what they are thinking without words being said.

An "ok" 15min session does more good than 30 of bad training. Also the bad training takes longer to undo.

I delt with this same prob after trying to introduce ecollar to my dog. He had very little interest in bumpers cause he related them to a shock. So i gave him a few days off and the bumper in back yard to play with.

If your pup doesnt want to play your game by your rules, back off and play their game with them but keep it fun. Seems like yours is loosing interest, train/play until he looses interest then back off and start another game or just stop and let him be a pet, instead of being a retreiver.

A pro trainer told me "if you take the fun out of training and make the dog be 100% forced to do something, yes they might do as told but just like a child prodegy they are extremely educated but I'm sure theres not much fun being had." I want my dog to have fun and enjoy hunting with me instead of working for me!