Mud motor build?

[munyoz70]

Have any of yall ever built your own? If so how did it go? Pros, cons, regrets, suggestions etc... Basically was it worth it.

Now this might just be me being crafty if you will.... But I am curious if there is a way to hook the drive unit of a surface drive motor up to a larger HP air cooled engine. Some of the V-Twin cruiser motorcycle engines put out serious HP and FT LBS of torque. If the drive train would handle the power and if the props could have enough low end to get you plained off but still not limit top speed I would think it shouldnt be difficult to produce 30+mph.

I am no speed demond but 25mph is ok for hunting but running open water can be frustrating. Goal is a more versatile boat while still being able to run shallows.

What does the brain trust of DS think?

[bmanning3]

Have any of yall ever built your own? If so how did it go? Pros, cons, regrets, suggestions etc... Basically was it worth it.

Now this might just be me being crafty if you will.... But I am curious if there is a way to hook the drive unit of a surface drive motor up to a larger HP air cooled engine. Some of the V-Twin cruiser motorcycle engines put out serious HP and FT LBS of torque. If the drive train would handle the power and if the props could have enough low end to get you plained off but still not limit top speed I would think it shouldnt be difficult to produce 30+mph.

I am no speed demond but 25mph is ok for hunting but running open water can be frustrating. Goal is a more versatile boat while still being able to run shallows.

What does the brain trust of DS think?

beavertail used to make a ''Predator". It was a longtail with a harley motor on it.

As for a longtail build, if your pretty handy you can make a decent homebuild..

Sounds like you should look into a stage 1 or 2 surface drive (Gatortail, Prodrive, Godevil) I would stay away from mudbuddy right now, they're having some serious issues with these new sport h and v motors)).. stage 1 generally consists of carb (mikuni), heads, and exhaust or cam, heads, exhaust. It helps with top end, but really shines when carrying a load.

[SHANE704]

i believe you can buy a gatortail "low unit" or drive all put together and ready to bolt onto a motor of your choice, but your gonna be lookin at spending some $$$$

[bmanning3]

gatortail will not just sell the frame only. And they hardly ever come up for sale used... might as well just buy a new (or used) complete motor/frame, sell the motor off it, then try to retro-fit the harley engine.. That is, if your dead set on trying that. It sounds like a money pit that will make you half as happy as doing it the right way and modding a factory gatortail.

[Blake Williamson]

On MMT there is a guy that has taken a Harley motor and put it on a Gator Tail frame he has had a lot of trouble and sank a lot of money in the deal trying to keep it all together. He has had a special prop made for it and has had to get some special belt for it just bc the belts that come standard on the Gator Tails are 120hp belts and even with the special belts and all he keeps breaking them with the torque your creating. I remember reading on the Predator motors somewhere that the reason why them motor didn't do as well as expected was bc of overheating issues. Which is understandable if you look at how them motor where made to run and all. Cranking that much HP and and rmps and only running 45-50mph tops you're not getting the air flow though the motor like you would if you had the motor on a bike somewhere.

If you're looking for a motor with the hp to tow a load you need to get you something like a Gator Tail Pro Drive and send the thing off to either Calen or SETX and get them to mod that baby out with all that you can afford to put on it and you better be ready to spend the money when you do.

But with my 1860 Gator Tail I can put 3 avg guys, dog, decoys, blind with all the other crap and roll 23-25 mph with a stock 35hp GTR. Empty I can get 28 mph. I don't care nothing about adding mods to my boat. I rather my stuff be reliable then I would about it being fast. I didn't buy a mud motor to be fast.

[bmanning3]

reliable? stage 1 is more reliable than a stock motor. Briggs valves, exhaust, and carb are terrible. But i do agree either calen or setx for mods.

[kris Schaumburg]

reliable? stage 1 is more reliable than a stock motor. Briggs valves, exhaust, and carb are terrible. But i do agree either calen or setx for mods.

you are crazy, how many hours do you think are on most of the commercial briggs that are on zero turn commercial lawnmowers. I'm sure your lifted truck rides better than stock geometry as well?

[bmanning3]

crazy? how so? half the briggs valves do not seat right from the factory, and even if they do, they won't for long. SS valves and head work will not do anything to harm the motor, it is just an upgrade of the original parts that were there. I know there will be an argument that the higher compression that comes with decking heads will hurt a motor, but everything is best in moderation.. .020-.040 deck will only add about 15 lbs of compression, its the guys who are going to a .060 or a 0.65 (along with a grinded, hi perf. cam) that will end up having engines go kaboom. It's kind of like saying a k&n will decrease the life of your truck because it is considered a performance part. And you cannot for a second actually think that a mikuni is a less reliable option than the stock carb..

Also, the OP was talkin about slapping a harley motor to a surface drive frame, do you really think his main concern is reliability?

[craziehunter18]

I have also thought of this concept. I found on ebay that a VW sand rail motor could work on this type project. Higher HP and Higher RPM's. I also thought of a Subaru marine motor, maybe 65hp. Either way would take some engineering but the outcome should be a game changer. I just won't have the money to do so for a few years.

[LODI QUACKER]

It has been done. If u really want the info join mudbuddy forums and do some searching. There is a guy that has a suzuki on a mudbuddy frame. He has gotten help from mudbuddy guy. Older thread but the big guys on the forum can point you to the threads and the guy.

[MudHog]

If you do an inboard motor mud boat, you can put whatever engine you want in it and still get the luxury of shallow water. Mud boats have been around much longer than surface drive mud motors. I don't see a large engine like a harley engine dangling on a frame to make a long tail mud motor very effective. Torque, balance, vibrations, accoustics all come to mind initially.


Check out this boat and I've seen people do the same using flatback canoes: http://www.boat-world.com/disppic.php?I ... 07&picno=5

[munyoz70]

First of all this is just an Idea for a project, something to entertain me more than anything. I have practically zero experience with surface drives... If I were to persue this I would never put a Harley motor on it. (But lets reframe from that pizzin contest)

Manning- My dad said it best to me growing up. "they pay engineers hundreds of thousands of dollars to make their branded item work great and reliably, but you think that some aftermarket company knows THEIR engines better?" As for higher compression that burns up starters for one. Internal cumbustion engines are basically a structured bomb going off and channeling the pressure from explosion into the drive train. What those guys are doing are trying pack dynamite into a paper thin can and blowing engines left and right. Thru paper thin cylinder walls(bored out), high compression motor and too much air fuel. They do this for more power, because all older gear heads know "there is no replacement for displacement" that means CC/CI. BUT you cant harness what you cant restrain.

Kris I agree nothing takes a beating more than commercial lawn mowers.

Crazie - Just so happen I was thinking VW air cooled along with V-Twin MC motor.

Lodie I looked on MMT and seemed to me that its few dude with a lot of rulers constantly telling the newbies how big their D is. I saw more blasting folks who ask out of the box questions, than actually help answer stated question.

MudHog- Couldnt wait for your response and knowledge! I have seen inboard mud boats and they are amazing.

My thoughts go like this. If my research answers the many questions I have. I would then say lets find one of these units that a self proclaimed MM hotrod specialist has blown the motor on and then put a cheap but reliable metric V-Twin motor on the frame and drive train. Connecting motor to gear box with a yoke/unjoint type adapter including some type of shear pin or egineered weak link that would break when extreme bind. You could then regroup and quick fix in water. the engines on these bikes are not crazy heavy and they alread come with twist throtle that you coud put on any tiller handle with ease.

I would think this would be relatively simple and fun! Not trying to save money or go cheap just thinking unique and also not limited to poking my way thru a lake in open water or summer time. Plus me and my whole crew are hefty guys. I would say any combination of our 4 hunting friend would break the 1000lb mark.

Thoughts? Proffessor MudHog share some more much wanted input.

[Anatidae]

reliable? stage 1 is more reliable than a stock motor. Briggs valves, exhaust, and carb are terrible.

For the record - I had to REPLACE a stock Briggs carb on a MB 45HD @ 46 hours. It happens. You can anticipate a certain amount of 'trouble' from anything, though. That's just the nature of mud motors IMO.

I f you put a Harley motor on there.......try rebuilding the bottom-end using 2 'right-side' flywheels instead of a right and a left. There will be more vibration and a little less top-end speed but it'll give you all the low-end torque you would need in certain situations. I did this on a '64 panhead and it would smoke the tires in first gear, but it got a little squirrely at around 110.......

[bpinson1]

http://www.copperheadmfg.com/

[MudHog]

Most people don't realize that the "other" brand surface drives use Stage 1 kits on thier "stock" engine and is the reason why "their" surface drive engines are "faster" than the others.

I'm not naming names, because of the inside info I have.



I agree in that MMT seems to be more of a whose dick is bigger or longer than any much useful knowledge. Yes, there are guys on there that know there stuff, but is mostly the boat builder guys like Uncle J.


Now, there was a group of guys in New Iberia / Loreauville area that built a hybrid inboard mud boat. One is a 140 h.p. 18ft and the other is a 325 h.p. 25ft. They had the inboard motor, but combined that with a pivoting shaft out the transom. Basically became an I/O (inboard/outboard), but was for shallow water and mud.


AH HA!!!!!! after searching here is some pictures: http://www.blizzarddesigns.com/mudboat/mudboat.html