DMAP opinions

[jdbuckshot]

We have been on DMAP along time on your big lease. 4,600 acres

in the last 5 years they have had us kill 40+ does.

and the last two years we really concentrated and shot 40+ and less than 10 mature bucks. Per season.

our buck to Doe ratio is very good, but it is now difficult to even see a deer in a grass patch, and when you do its usually a few yearlings and orphans.

I talk to our biologist about it and he tells me we still have to many deer. I disagree. It seems like he wants us to have as few deer as possible.


our grass patches are not hammered, and have plenty of food for the deer. and we even plant beans / peas / summer plots.


We have killed 20 does this season and 3 - 130" class bucks.


anyone else have any input?

[peewee]

It's all about camp goals. Depending on where you are located the amount of does you are killing is in line with other camps I have seen. As for seeing the deer in FP I can give you my opinion on what I have seen in the past. I use to get to shoot does at a (Pay to Hunt Operation). After a few years bucks would walk out in FP at anytime of day (large, mature bucks). Does got harder and harder to come by. You would see them all over the road but they had learned that a FP associated danger. The last time I hunted this property I had two large bucks walk out on myself and my wife. I knew when I had temptations to shoot one and try to sneak it out it was time for me to quit. I have killed enough deer now that I don't get temptations like that anymore, but lets just say thank goodness I was friends and respected the owners of the property back in the day.

[stang67]

I cannot figure out how you'd still need to kill 4x more does than bucks. If the ratio is close to 1:1 and you aren't compensating for neighbors' harvest, it seems to me you'd want to kill equal numbers of bucks and does. This isn't biology, it's math. I've thought about this often because your camp seems to be a microcosm of many areas throughout the state. MDWFP is steadfast in its message to shoot more does and I can't fathom why. Maybe I'm missing something.

[DoubleBandMS]

Does anyone know of a DMAP club that was NOT instructed to kill more does? the biologist always has the same recommendation. Doesn't make logical sense to me.

[stang67]

I don't think hunter enjoyment factors in at all. It should. Dr Grant Woods brings that up all te time on his show.

[matador1]

[stang67]

If plenty of food exists (goes uneaten) and hunters are seeing fewer deer than what makes them happy, the doe slaughter shouldn't continue. That's a simple concept -- a simple FACT. I believe the biologists are oblivious to hunter satisfaction and are blindly pushing toward some published deer/acre figure. I'm no biologist, but I did study hard in college while a handful of em partied in my living room several nights a week.

The goals and concerns for pens are wildly different than mine -- and that is the shortest and most polite comment I've ever made about enclosures.

This article documents just one way such a strategy can have unit ended consequences for free range herds. http://www.gon.com/article.php?id=3045

[cwink]

We have had the same discussion on our 5500 acre camp. They keep telling us to kill 40 does but membership hardly does because we dont have enough deer sightings to keep them interested enough to stay in the stand...We are killling bigger bucks and alll deer weights are up, but its frustrating not seeing many deer.

[bigoak]

Remember that the MDWFP recommendations may not have anything to do with what is best for the hunter or even the deer herd. The auto insurance lobbyists may be influencing their decisions.

[Northbigmuddy]

A large camp in my area was put on a management program this season. Early in the season they were stacking up does like cordwood. They are supposed to curtail trophy hunting for 3 years. The property used to be like a zoo with top tier racks. I'm interested to see how it turns out over the years to come.

[mshunter77]

[pondman]

As a fisheries biologist I often hear the same gripes about bass fishing -- sometimes the gripes were directed at me, sometimes not. However, when mother nature fails to cooperate, somebody besides Mother Nature is going to get the blame. I am certainly not saying the biologist is never to blame, sometimes he is.

Several things to consider.

Make sure the biologist is aware of YOUR goals. You must give the biologist realistic goals. You can't see 15 deer every time you go and kill 150 inch bucks.

Follow the biologist's recommendations. All of them. Not just the doe killing. The worst butt chewing I ever got from a client was because of this. I gave the client 6 recommendations. He followed one of them. After he finished I explained that he needed to follow them all. He and I are now good friends.

Understand changes happen that impact the herd that are beyond anyone's control.

Educate yourself. Apply some logic. You need to kill more does than bucks because bucks have a higher rate of natural mortality (fighting, poaching, ect.)

As for the car insurance myth, insurance will change if collisions go up. Insurance companies will get their money. They don't care what happens to the herd.

Consider land use changes, carrying capacity of area can change quickly. If carrying capacity decreases so will you herd densities.

Talk to the biologist. If the level of deer sightings fall way off and there is still food make the biologist aware. He might make some changes to the recommendations.

Lastly, make sure the biologist is aware of YOUR goals. Ask questions to make sure he is managing to your goals. If the neighbors are under management, ask what their recommendations are. I repeated this because it is very important.

Pond

[stang67]

I'm not familiar with DMAP. Do they just manage toward the state's goals, or do they work toward hunters' goals?

[deltadukman]

I personally think all these camps on dmap have several issues with not seeing deer. I hunted a place in north rankin county that by first glance would look like a place that would be crawling with deer. I got all excited. Hunted my tail off all year, scouted, walked all over the place, went way back in the swamp where no one goes....probably didn't see more than 10 deer the two years I hunted there. This is on quite a large tract of land. Now, if you see a buck, more than likely he will be a good one, especially for rankin county, but you may get one crack at a buck all year there. You could hunt a solid week and not see a doe, the biologist keep saying shoot 40+ does. I honestly believe there weren't 40 deer on the whole place because you didn't see many deer tracks even walking around. I've heard similar stories from several others that hunt dmap "camps".

I have also hunted private non club places that are very well managed either by themselves or dmap. The difference between the private land and the clubs are the fact that on the private land a lot are taken early with bows, while on the clubs they are popping does until the last day and the majority are with rifles. I think if you're going to be shootings a lot of does, you better be getting the majority done during bow season. When you start shooting a lot of does with rifles, the pressure is going to make te sightings down as the deer become skittish and nocturnal.

It's also my belief that the majority of places that need to be shooting that many does are around the big black and the delta and behind the levee. I have not seen one tract of land in my life of hunting the hills that could sustain several years of shooting 40+ does several years in a row.

I like the rule of thumb of shooting most of your does with a bow and reaching your quota before Christmas or the rut.

[Seymore]

Where does this mystical 40 number come from? Our club got told the same thing this year. We do have way to many does as we can see them just about every day in the food plots.

We are just a small club under 5,000 acres with about 10 members and only a few of them hunt all the time. The rest come a weekend or two and that's it. The reason given was that if the population density is high and a there is a disease outbreak like blue tongue. It will spread like wildfire and there will be no deer for several years. But to me that means everybody in that area must work together. Otherwise, a small club stuck in the middle of larger clubs is just spinning its wheels. There's a club North of the club I am in that I used to be in. It's arguable the largest in the State with 20K acres and 200 members with an operating budget pushing $100K.