Help with jagd Pup

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jdbuckshot
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Help with jagd Pup

Postby jdbuckshot » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:41 am

I have a 5 month old jagd Terrier pup that I am teaching to be a cold nose blood tracking dog.

I introduced tracking at an early age (7 weeks) - and she is doing phenomenal. she has found 6 deer this year - 3 of them were very hard finds - one was a wounded doe that had to be shot twice with arrow to finish off.

she is doing tracks on a lead now and its all I can do to keep up with her.

I recently bought a Garmin Alpha Dog tracking / training collar so I can give her more freedom on tracks and not risk losing her in the woods. she is being collar conditioned now.


here is what I need help with - I can almost never get her to come to me. if I am in the house she is very obedient and comes when called, and used to be in the yard. Now that she is developing a stronger drive to hunt, when she is out of the kennel she is always hunting rats in the barn, chasing the chickens, sniffing the pecan trees for squirrels, or harassing my lab, I have to run her down and catch her to get her back.


she knows the sit command and sits for food, and sits good on a leash. and like I said - she comes to me in the house or when there are no distractions or when its time to eat.


here is my conundrum - should I wait to hit obedience training after deer season - I don't want to pressure her to the point where I discourage her hunting drive, but I also don't want to have to worry about letting her out of the truck at the deer camp and having to watch her every move.


I am not used to this type of dog - I have trained two finished labs - which were super easy compared to this Tasmanian Devil


any pointers would be great.
"The rich ..... who are content to buy what they have not the desire to get by their own exertions, These are the real enemies of Game."
greenheadgrimreaper
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Re: Help with jagd Pup

Postby greenheadgrimreaper » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:15 am

JD, I have some experience with JT's, but I never owed one. I love the breed. I wanted one, but couldn't find one and the next desire of my heart was attended to, and so I moved on. I'd like to say I'm happy for your owning the dog, and that she is doing well and all that crap. Truth is, I'm jealous...

Long post, but I don't write on here much (who does) and I love training dogs.

I realize what you mean about the dog being different than your labs, but, to be sure, there are many labs that are as hard-headed and defiantly independent as the JT's I had experience with- I owned one of those labs. And to qualify the JT's I knew of: The male killed himself because he was ripping at a cat that he'd chased under the owner's house. Every time he'd thrash, an exposed nail would impale him in the skull.

The thing about the dog you got (her demeanor), IMO, is that they can handle a lot of discipline and clear teaching, but if their spirit is broken, you just busted up a stylish dog. I think of these kind of dogs, in regards to teaching them new concepts with zero room for error, like the way the military teaches a Marine AFTER he has been through boot camp: The Marine (the dog) is proud of himself but not prideful, but he's still green and prone to let his pride get in the way. How do you teach that person a new concept, while still allowing him his dignity and respect he deserves?

That's what you gotta figure out.

I'm training bird dogs now (for myself, obviously). Stopping him fron any distance and making him stay there and then recall or wait for my release is to bird dog training like what precision marking at the line is to the retriever- in terms of their usability in the field. Obviously recalling and stopping any dog on command has its uses- not the least of which is to save their life.

I say the above only as my opinion on how important you already know it is to be able to recall, and IMO, stop the dog- specially if he is of the tracking type. (Mine tracks birds, yours deer.) Only you can deem it worth the risk (if you believe there are any) to continue using her without recall commands being 100% reliable. To me, with sit being the 1st and most useful command in many instances, the stop and recall commands are what saves a dog's life and wow spectators. Of course I know you know all of this. Right now, I'm speaking to the concern about hunting her, but NOT in regard to conern over her drive, but to her safety and her ability to take training in the future.

IMO, you got 2 distilled-down options, if results are what you want instead of headaches and possible disaster: either shut it down until she's finished with OB, or let her go as usual, and continue with training OB but ONLY if you promise yourself and the dog that you've got the discipline to not muddy up training with the events of a hunt. I'd only put her in situations whereby I'm confident that her lack of OB won't get her killed or hurt and NEVER EVER give a command in uncontrolled circumstances or unless you know you can stop all else going on and reinforce the command. It sounds to me, going only by what you've said, like she knows damned-well what you want.

And so, here's my answer on what I'd do: I'd be careful about where I hunt her, never give commands not tested for reliability and then I'd continue to train her in controlled situations and then slowly, in controlled scenarios, use the training while out hunting. I'm a big believer in this if- only if- the person listening is responsible enough and educated enough to know when they should and shouldn't do something or let the dog do/not do something and know when they should pull out of a situation. There's nothing wrong with controlled field exercises before the recruit is impeccable; so long as you the teacher knows what you're doing all along the way. Unfortunately, this proves disastrous for most, but doesn't disaster wind up being the case for most anyone who thinks they wanna train a dog to work? (Not you, JD.)

You know the mechanics (or a few of the many same general concepts) of how to recall. Unless I'm wrong, I get that you're talking about the intagibles part of your issue, and not whether or not you should use a post or a helper to hold the dog back for recall reinforcement, etc.

In my mind, here's how I think about it, and how I'd go about it psychologically. Remember the "Marine" anology:
I'd teach her the recall with dignity and respect, like the marine that she is (in her mind) but with ZERO tolerance for any deviation. That doesn't mean slobbery-mouthed force or harsh correction for extended periods whereby you are tearing the dog down to build her up: that (in her mind) is already a feat she accomplished in boot camp. On the contrary, with a Marine of which you're still building up for max utility and who put his time in (even if fabricated in the mind of the breed), he respectfully expects some respect because he is SURE he can succeed. Zero tolerance just means that, after clear teaching of what you want, the recruit WILL follow orders to training specifications. There is no question, there is no debate: The sun will rise tomorrow, and you will recall like "this" when called. Once the command is made clear and you see she knows what and how to do it, this kinda dog, like she'll do, will show pride and seem to laugh at the ease of the task. Meanwhile, you will be waiting for this: The slightest deviation or testing of YOUR skill level, the show of arrogant pride, if even for a moment. When that happens- when the dog is clearly aware of the command and her pride blinds her awareness of who's the boss, you will meet her with SWIFT and sharp reinforcement. Don't dwell on it, don't beat her up over it, but bring her back down to reality. The next time, when she recalls correctly, heap praise on her, raise celebratory hell like a buncha marines would do after completing boot camp. Throw her a ball, do something. But only once, maybe 3 times if she really took it hard, then move on. Once this has happened a few times (if it hasn't, the trainer isn't watching closely enough), back up the command with controlled defiance scenarios, simulated distractions, etc. via check ropes/ helper holding her back, etc.- standard tangible training protocol stuff. Withhold praise and give stately positive reinforcement during all of this phase or risk heaping to much pride on her when she has plenty of it. You might wind up defaulting into a constant loop of her getting lost in her own awesomeness and needing correction all the time to "snap back to." Of course none of this is set in stone, it all depends on her and how she reacts and how you react to her reactions. That's the beauty and the beast of dog training, you know.

You won't break her spirit then, I don't think.

To be sure, she's a Jagd Terrier, you'll have to be a cruel, mean mf'er to break her prey drive!
"The middle of the road is where the white line is -- and that's the worst place to drive." Robert Frost

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