Crimson & Arrowleaf

[Wingman]

Noticed today my crimson/arrowleaf plots have sprouted after the rain. I planted Specialty Seed Mississippi Blend last fall. Sprayed grass killer this spring and mowed it high later. Came back mid August and mowed low and a week later sprayed glyphosate. I was planning to disk lightly but it looks like it reseeded just fine.

[bigoak]

How is it looking now?

[Wingman]

Coming along nicely in some spots. I may have to replant some of the thinner spots.

[Lodi Rebel]

It will be even more come if you give it time.... The shallow covered seeds are coming first, the little deeper seeds wil later!!

[Wingman]

They should all be on top of ground because I didn't disk it. I'm gonna wait and see what this last rain does for it.

[Lodi Rebel]

They are on top of the ground!!! Some are gonna be covered by more debris than others, some seeds are gonna sink into the ground a little futher because of different soil types with in your plot, and depending on the plants that dropped the fruit early than the others and so on.... Different animals of different weights walking thru the plot when its wet pushing seeds deeper and heavy rain on protected and nonprotected seeds. Lots of factors cause the seeds to germinate at different times... Some will germ a month or later after the first sight of newly sprouted clover.... Give it some time and after the first frost or two, hit it 200lbs per acre of 8-24-24...

[Wingman]

Okay, thanks.

[SWAG]

Clover needs no N fertilizer.

I was suprised when bush hogging this weekend to see some of my crimson clover strips already beginning to come up. I usually do not mow them until late Sept so I can get some reseeding. There was a good bit of crimson already coming up. This will be the third year on these strips with no over seeding if they all come up.

I do not have arrowleaf but in a few spots. It reseeds VERY well. In fact my "few spots" are growing larger each year and seed being transfered by bush hog/animals is starting to show up in other places. I planted the arrowleaf spots in 2005 and have never overseeded or replanted any of them, they always come back bigger and thicker.

I have a fairly large field of ladino clover (11 acres). It is now 5/6 years old. Limed the field the year of establishment and have never limed again. It really took a beating in 2010. The cool spring that year made the ladino really go. It got thick and tall, made a big seed crop. Then the rain quit and it got hot. The clover died in mats covering the ground almost completely. It struggled to get started back last fall. Came back from stolons as few new seed could germinate with hardly no rain. Was very small and spotty through last winter but came on decent in the spring. 2011 summer was not much nicer to it but it did not grow off so big in the spring so did not have the matted residue to deal with. Late summer rains and these early cool snaps have it doing really well. Since establishment, I have applied 100 lbs of 0-20-20 one year (2009) and 150 lbs 0-20-20 another year (2007).

Each clover has its time to shine. I see deer rarely eat the crimson. Turkey hens love to bug the crimson clover during the breeding season and sometimes I have seen them eat the red flower. They are in the crimson strips daily during the first two weeks of April. Deer seem to nibble the arrowleaf mainly from Feb-Apr. After that it gets stemy and there is so much other young tender stuff to eat. Turkeys will wald beside the arrowleaf so I assume they bug the edge. The ladino field rarely does not have some type of wildlife in it when you drive by any time of the year. Whether it is a turkey, a deer, a rabbit, resident geese, something is going to be out there. No doubt in my mind that a large ladino plot on a piece of property is an asset. Really only 60-90 days a year that the clover is not being used. That is 270-300 days a year that the clover has something to offer wildlife. I have begun to plant ladino on my CRP roads. Not easy to establish in the hard roads with little tilth/fertility. Cost of seed, lime, and fertilizer is what slows the process as well. I hope to one day have 2-3 miles of roads in clover to go along with the 11 acre ladino field, 1.5 acres of arrowleaf strips, and the 2 acres of crimson strips.

None of these clovers are grown together on the same acre (except where arrowleaf has crept in from seed movement).

[Lodi Rebel]

What specific variety of clover are you talking about the has stolons or rhizomes?? Does not hurt to put a little nitrogen on crimson after a couple of froost. It does use it in the early stages for foilage and stem growth. All clover only produces nitrogen when it begins to bloom in the early spring. The reason why many people say no nitrogen, is because of spring sproutings of summer grasses and broadleafs already have enough nitrogen from the clovers to cause you problems with noxious plant control... If you dont lime every two tho three years, the 0-20-20 you put out is not getting used completely beacuse of PH levels in your soil. Only neutral soils will use around 80% of the fertilizer that is put out. Acidic soils (around 5 to 6) can only break down about 50% of the fertilizer into usable components prefered by the plant. Doesn't matter the rate at which applied!! The only clover that I know of that has been geneticly crossed and grows with a stolon is the new Durano by Pennington.

[SWAG]

[SWAG]

The above post are my opinions based on what I have seen and not to be considered recommendations. Like growing anything, people have different results in different situations. Best way to learn is through trial and error which it seems as if everyone here is doing.

[Wingman]

My soil reset required lime but no fertizer.

[Lodi Rebel]

No, not at all SWAG. Heck, what I have done for years has seemed to work really well for me. Eveything that I plant on the home place is for turkeys and turkeys only. I am not a deer hunter at all!!! If the deer use them I try to get rid of them!! Deer can cause distruction of turkey plots or young planted native shrubs and trees.. I want high levels of nitrogen in everything for insect attraction. I also want height on all my plants for polt survival from hawks and owls.

Yes we all have different opinions and I guess if what we do is working, then neither one of us are wrong. I, by no means, was trying to shout and force my thoughts one anyone. I guess I'm just use to texting the D@MN X of mine that the questions marks have become more of a Habit!!!!
Really didn't mean to attack you in any way!! I'll appoligize, SORRY!!

Thanks, Chad

[SWAG]

Haha...no need to apologize, you did nothing wrong, just was not sure what the exclamation points were all about. I too am geared towards improving the turkey habitat more than anything else. Lucky to have a small drove in the Delta portion of Tallahatchie County where turkeys nor habitat are common. The hardwood CRP field borders have really helped with increased nesting and brooding area. Agree the N will help have more insects.

[Lodi Rebel]

I have plenty of turkeys if you would like to come hunt with me?? Also have good friends in Witcha Falls, TX and Southeast Kansas that I hunt on every year too.... Just let me know, would enjoy having you come hunt..