methods of force fetch

[KWAKHED]

I was just curious as to what methods yall use. Is it always better to start with hold? or what if you don't have a table, or is it easier to just drop him off at the trainer and let him/her do it? I generally like to do all of my training myself but with three kids and a job I just don't have the time I used to. Just trying to get your opinions and ideas. also, how old is too old to force fetch? thanks

[stumpjumper]

You dont have to have a table to ff from. The tailgate of your truck works just like a table and you only need to make about 15-30 min a day for you pup. If your serious about it then you can make that much time a day even after the kids are in bed. Good luck and if you decide to go with a trainer they are several that people can suggest to you on here.

[Glenn]

There are only two methods of ff retrievers. The toe hitch and ear pinch. If you use ear pinch for a method then you do not need a table. I use ear pinch because the dog is on the ground the entire time. How old is too old? If a dog has alot of desire than they can't be too old. There obedience has too be solid before doing ff.

[Drakeshead]

I like to put the dog on a table, or a tailgate for that matter, only to remove the dog from their "zone" and into mine. Just something I prefer, but not a rule or anything.

[KWAKHED]

thanks for the replies guys. do yall start with hold or go straight into ff?

[Drakeshead]

I make sure the dog/pup has a full understanding of hold before moving onto the next step. I do hold on the table, hold on the table walking the length of it and then hold on the ground at heel. I do this with half of a wooden hammer handle, then a bumper and then a duck.

This being said, I would get info from Goosebruce, Chuck McCall, S. Masley, Charles Dwyer, Copiah Creek, DIB, Gator, JSherwin, and/or Chuckle 12 as all of these guys have much more experience heading into FF than me.

Also, "hold" is not part of FF, just something I like the dog to be sold in before moving forward to other things.

Anyway, just my .000002.

[Unkljohn]

I've done it on 1 dog, but I think I did it right. I used a roller off of a paint roller and the tailgate of my truck. It was just easier on my back than doing it all on the ground. Then when we went to the ground I switched over to a bumper with a rope. It's really not that difficult to do, you just have to be able to read your dog.

[Cat Squirrel]

this might help....

http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/index.html

My FF progression is pretty close to this, except I extend it into collar fetch after stick fetch. I use a paint roller too, then bumpers.
Take your time, especially with "hold", it's an important step.

[Duck Chaser]

Those 2 oak hill FF articles are a good resource. Would be a good read even if you decide to go with a trainer. Glenn (posted above) has a training kennel in the Vaiden area I believe. You should take note of any bone he would throw ya... A table is a strange environment for a dog at first. Some folks prefer it, and some would rather the dog be comfortable as possible in a strange process..

Hold is surely part of it imo, as the first attempt to control the dog's mouth. If you had a reliable/enforcable "hold" and "here", you'd have more than most.. Teaching hold, you might need both hands around the mouth, making it more difficult to hold the dog. If they avoid or lay down, you can snap-hook their collar to the side of a kennel/fence to keep the head stationary.

I don't care if you ear pinch in the top of a tree.., you need a good hold on the collar and be able to control that head (away from you). fight or flight is likely what you will provoke, and the dog learning the way out, is the point. If it goes too smooth/fast, you may be getting suckered by a dog that just likes to fetch stuff, and not enough pressure. Such could result in confusion or poor response to pressure down the road, as the dog hasn't really been conditioned to deal with it. Excessive pressure and poor timing can result in confusion too. Same goes for CC. Unkljohn said "you just have to be able to read your dog". True, and sometimes easier said than done. btw, until you proof it w/ everything you want to pick-up, (ie. a rank HT bird), you're not done. got that t-shirt.

Do your homework, have a plan, and ideally someone with experience to at least talk you through issues along the way. Its slick to see your dog "get it", and know you have something to build on.

[Damn_It_Boy]

[augie]

FF on the ground has a distinct advantage. it gives you an opportunity to work on obedience at the same time. in 16 years i have never used a toe hitch or table to FF. I start them on the ground from day 1. the important thing to remember is to "teach" before you apply pressure. i would highly suggest if one isnt 110% confident in FF'ing, take it to a seasoned pro and let them have the dog for a month and let them do it.

[augie]