Boy Scouts

[Seymore]

I disagree with some of the points being made that a gay boy should be allowed in because they need to be around Godly men. In theory that sounds absolutely great and I'm all for it. In practice it can't and won't happen. Those groups that pushed for this have already said that one of their next projects is to monitor how the "inclusion" of gay boys is handled from policy to action. So if a Godly scout master says anything to the gay boy that in anyway can be construed as trying to change or even cause the boy to stop and think for a moment, they intend to be all over it like white on rice. That, among other reasons, is why they are so adamant that gay leadership should be allowed.

Along these same lines the culture of any organization start from the top down. Somewhere along the way the Scout leadership was asleep at the wheel and the board members who couldn't and wouldn't stand behind the principals and beliefs which the Scouts were founded on began to take over the board. Eventually, there were more of "them" than there were of people who took the issue all the way to the Supreme Court and won. Scouting then became reliant on the money and corporate banking that those board members brought with them.

Bottom line to me is that the beginning of the end started a long time ago and was a very gradual thing. One day those who still believe in the founding principals and values are standing around looking at each other wondering what the Hell happened.

[Buckwabit]

[brake man]

[Wingman]

Great comments you two. A very sad Eagle Scout here as well. I believe our troop will fold due to sponsor loss after our three Life scouts get their Eagle soon. Looking forward to seeing what On My Honor comes up with.

[Dr. B]

When I obtained the rank of Eagle as a 15 year old, scouting was my life. Of all the things I've been blessed to be able to accomplish, this was one I was very proud of. I loved scouting and many of guys that were in my troop grew up to be productive members of society. Some became my fraternity brothers and friends that I still talk to today. Interestingly enough, one of the older scouts who obtained Eagle, Vigil award from the OA, and who went on to become a physician, is gay. We didn't know that growing up and to this day it is still hard for me to understand. It doesn't take away anything he taught me or what he was able to do during his tenure as a scout. I still respect him for what he does and what he taught me even though I don't understand his orientation, I believe one's sexuality is their own business. I have financially supported BSA somewhat over the years in a very minimal way ($100 annually). I will have to carefully consider if I will continue that now. I hate that this once proud organization will be left divided and fractured.

Dr. B

[Seymore]

Never made Eagle and really wish I could have. I say could have because we moved the Summer before I started my Junior year in high school. I'm not going to say all but most who do make Eagle or get close I'm convinced have a good strong troop and council and they also stay in one spot. I didn't know anybody here or even a troop to get involved with. That and I was running back and forth from Tupelo to Raymond to keep the farm up every weekend so it went by the wayside.

The first step I think will be developing a policy for implementation. Leaders will have to attend some course put together by some group and sign off on an agreement stating they have read the new rules and will comply. I really think that will be when there is a major exodus of leaders who are staying to try and make the best of a bad situation. I think sensitivity class and signing an acknowledgment will be the straw that broke the camel's back.

I don't have a crystal ball but I would almost bet that we will have a scout master held up to scorn and ridicule by those groups pushing this within a year of implementation. I imagine there will be a boy used by these groups to incite an incident. A troop with good people in it will be chosen because they know they can incite an incident. Then there will be a cry that gay leaders or needed because the current leadership can't handle it.

There are several sayings for what happened to the Scouts and many other organizations. It's call "Creeping Normalcy" and is also known as "Death by a Thousand Cuts". The gay and lesbian groups don't get groups to change overnight. It's very gradual until one day everybody stops and looks around wondering what happened and where everybody they knew is gone.

[champcaller]

As an Eagle Scout, BSA was the one organization I wanted to donate to eventually, but now I'm not sure if I could in good faith.

I don't have a problem with gays, but I do have a problem with gays in scouts.

[Buckwabit]

I was reading the same thread on MSGUNOWNERS.com this morning and it said that Ellen Degeneres was making a new girl scout program and calling it the Bush Hogs.....

[augustus_65]

I am an Eagle Scout and Vigil Honor member of the Order of the Arrow. I became an Eagle Scout and a Vigil in 1992 when I was 16 years old. I say that "I am" an Eagle Scout because the leadership skills and lessons learned in scouting have shaped my life and are a foundation of who I am today. Those skills and lessons will never leave me. My best friend is still my friend whom I met in cub scouts and went through the ranks to become Eagle Scouts together. Although I have not been active in scouting in fifteen years, I am and will always be a Boy Scout. To say that I am saddened by the decision made by the national organization is a tremendous understatement. I am saddened because an idealogical decision will have a practical impact on boys across this nation. Just this morning there was a report on a local Montgomery news station of a Baptist Church in Helena, Alabama pulling the local troop's charter because of the decision. I am a deacon in the Baptist Church and I understand the pastor's position, but I am saddened because boys will likely leave scouting when they are forced to change meeting locations, assuming the troop can find a new home. This scenario will be repeated across the nation and the boys will suffer because the organization was not strong enough to stand firm on the principles that have served scouting for over 100 years. I am saddened because many families will be faced with the agonizing decision to leave scouting. I am saddened because many will feel as though scouting has left them. I suppose I am lucky that I only have a daughter and we dont have scouting in my county, but I still have many friends in scouting who will have to make difficult decisions. I am saddened that the national orginization has forced them to make such a decision.

[mossyisland]

Here are a few things I have been thinking about lately with all of this:

Have there not been gay people in the Boy Scouts before?

If the Church is the body of Christ and the Boy Scouts are a representation of the Church or of its values, then shouldn't the Boy Scouts react to a gay person joining in the same way the church reacts to a openly gay person accepting Christ or joining the church?

Throughout the bible, adulterers and homosexuals seemed to be always be grouped together. If we are looking at this and reacting to this as Christ would. Let me ask you, Does the Boy Scouts still accept adulterers? What do I mean? What is the number one thing a boy does ages 12-20 years old? You know what I am talking about, this is an all guys forum mostly. He rubs his love muscle and thinks about some good looking woman. According to the bible, it is adultery. Those boys are still accepted.

I do agree with you guys about the leadership part, but they are not letting them serve today. Today is today and tomorrow is tomorrow. Let tomorrow worry about itself and let Jesus change others lives through yours today.

[Wingman]

Ok, Rocky. I'm a rapist, just out of prison. I come knocking on your door. I notice you have a beautiful wife and two lovely little daughters. I need a place to spend the night. Let me stay with you, sleeping in close quarters or possibly the same room as your family, or buy me a hotel room in the next town? As a Christian, are you obligated to allow me into your home? Not no, but heck no. Your obligation is to protect your family. You have enough sense to see the danger here. You take me down the road, maybe buy me a burger and put me in the Motel 6 for the night and talk to me a little about Jesus.

Most parents with a son and a daughter give them their own rooms for Pete's sake. And those kids aren't even attracted to each other. You have family friends that come over, are you gonna put their 17 year old son in the same room as your daughter for the night? Then why in the Sam Hill are you gonna put a gay kid in a tent with a straight kid?

If you had a son, would you want me as a leader to put him in a tent with a gay kid? That is the question you have to answer. If you answer yes, then BSA needs leaders like you to help usher in this new policy. There will be plenty of openings in the coming weeks.

Everybody's a sinner, no one is saying anything to the contrary. You just don't put the fat boy next to the cupcakes, if you know what I mean. You have a kid that claims openly he's attracted to males. You don't mix him in with the other males if you have any sense. The ones who will pay the ultimate price here are kids who are victimized.

You don't put kids in jeopardy in the name of witnessing to the other people. Witness to the homosexuals, just don't put another kid in danger just so you can be politically correct. Boy Scouts has just endangered hundreds of thousands of kids with this vote. Boy Scouts has all kinds of youth protection training that leaders have to take. This all just went out the window. They'll have to come up with new policy now.

And mark my words down in stone. The BSA will eventually let gay leaders in. They've opened the doors on this and they will soon be overwhelmed by it. The gays will put even more pressure on them (they've already said they will) to allow gay leaders. It's coming, my friend, it's coming.

[420 racin]

My son will not join the boy scouts based soley on the fact the the BSA have caved on their founding priciples and have sucome to the all mighty dollar. The gay kids thing is just the catalyst for the demolition of the BSA. Also, like said before, this is a stepping stone for the left wing gays to change everythign they don't like about the BSA. Kids that young don't know if they are gay or not. It is their daddy and his boyfriend (who probably adopted the kid) who is pushing for their "Gay" son to join BSA. The kids are just being used as pawns to push their agenda at this point. Gay leaderes will be next...Period

The BSA could have told them to go start their own Gay Scouts troup or something..anything, they had the right to tell them now, but caved into the political pressure and the dollar. My son will never be in that program where men try to teach him to do right and stand up for your "Values", while they themselves do not have the balls to do right and stand up for their "Values"

Plus I can teach him way more stuff and alot cooler ways to get the stuff done than the boy scouts

[Rice]

I never was in it but this is the truth. Growing up there were 3 guys that I went to school with all did Boy Scouts (they were weird hence why nobody else did it) they did choir and all that other stuff while all the other kids played sports so my outlook is already not an outlook for what I'm sure Boy Scouts is meant to be. So they would always do the camping trips yada yada well no lie every single one of them came out of the closet once they got to college. And one will still post himself at boyscout camps and stuff in Facebook! So I can only imagine the group like that troop or whatever it's called help make that decision.

[bigoak]

I hate the way the liberal media and government leaders glorify homosexuals. I am sad to see the moral decline of our country. I don't want to see or hear about homosexuals and I don't want my kids exposed to them in any way. It is a sin and is a symptom of a bigger problem in this country, moral decline.

I was not a boy scout and have no desire for my son to be a boy scout. He is too busy with soccer, baseball, football, hunting, fishing, riding his bike, swimming at the creek, digging potatos in the garden, and everything else a redneck boy likes to do.

Having said that, this whole issue kind of reminds me of the preachers that refuse to marry a couple if the bride is pregnant, or the churches that will not allow a wedding in their church if the bride is pregnant. The pregnancy is not the sin, premarital sex is the sin. If the preacher was truly following the bible then he would not marry any couple who has had premarital sex. If you believe like I do that homosexuality is choice then that would make it a sin of the flesh just like premarital sex is a sin of the flesh. Jesus had a lot of compassion for those who committed sins of the flesh. Spent a lot of time with these types of people. Jesus had less compassion for those whose sins were of the heart, the religious leaders. Jesus got angry at those who strictly followed the "law" but had hate in their heart. What does this have to do with the boy scouts? Not sure.

For the sake of discussion, instead of the boy scouts, what if your son was a starter on his high school footall team or baseball team and another player on the team came out of the closet. Would you make him quit the team?

[gps4]