WRP Question

This forum is for general discussion that doesn't fit in the other topic-specific forums.
User avatar
Double R 2
Duck South Addict
Posts: 6206
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:06 pm
Location: Duck blinds of the World
Contact:

Re: WRP Question

Postby Double R 2 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:02 pm

Most naturally-established "as God intended" stands I sampled back when had far greater stem density than 436 (stands subject to seed dispersion by means of seasonal flooding usually ranged 1500 or more). Over a much longer period of time than we landowners and wildlife-productive mindsets would like relative to our needs and desires, will naturally produce superior stands of timber.

IMHO, direct seeding was sold short due to the time-frame of usually a decade or more that planting efforts were readily observed by landowners and involved agencies. After 5-10 years of seasonal oak die-back and regeneration, and the oaks finally took hold. It seemed to created a real patchy affect of variable, multi-aged stem density, with plenty of time for light-seeded shelter species, site-specific species such as willow, sweetgum, green ash, sycamore, cottonwood to seed in and abet oak growth.

Back when hardwood regeneration of the MAV was initiated, 302 sounded like a good number to jump-start the process, and >50% survival after a period of years was considered a success. WRP is perpetual - forever - so what's the hurry; it'll become established to woody species at some point in time even if it has to do it itself.

All of the pre-commercial methods mentioned are expensive and can't possibly make sense from a ROR stand-point unless somehow monetizing increased wildlife outputs, which might look good on paper but won't put money in the bank like sawtimber stumpage. And for which wildlife are we landowners managing anyway? That's right, deer. Don't forget, however, that WRP priority areas were initially established by USFWS, and that USFWS rank wildlife priorities are trust species: endangered/threatened, migratory birds, indigenous species. Pursuant to pre-merch thinning or timber harvest, would bet that nesting suitability for neo-trops trumps quality browse for trophy white-tails. If so, stripping it with a mechanical mulcher, for example, might be great for deer but would increase edge to the detriment of those warblers that favor nesting among dense stands of young hardwoods.

It will be interesting to see what USDA does - and when - regarding thinning. But WRP contracts are perpetual, forever, so what's their need to hurry.
Ramsey Russell's GetDucks.com® It's duck season somewhere. Full-service, full-time agency specializing in world-wide wingshooting and trophy bird hunts. Toll free 1-866-438-3897. Visit our website to view 100s of client testimonials, 1000s of photos.
redspeckable
Veteran
Posts: 186
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:14 pm

Re: WRP Question

Postby redspeckable » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:35 am

Thanks for a well spoken, well thought out reply, Mr. Russell. I always enjoy reading your responses and thoughts, and value your stance on subjects.

I too agree it's a perpetual activity that they aim to accomplish. In their mind they're truly isn't a rush. With that being said, I haven't seen the nature conservatory, or a bus load of 3rd graders on a field trip coming out to look for a red-beaked, blue breasted, twin tailed cocadeeded woodpecker. :)

What I do see as I drive through the south delta is a vast amount of acreage that has benefitted much more than just an endangered songbird. I see a vibrant nursery that has been sanctuary to so much of the game that we choose to pursue, that we invest untold millions as hunters pursuing, that we pour blood, sweat and tears into making better, vanishing. I see the browse and cover that once housed and fed untold numbers of whitetail deer, rabbits and other game, becoming a desert. As a landowner, it's disappointing. Sure I knew what we were purchasing when we signed on the dotted line. Even so, your heart aches as you know what could be done to improve and keep the quality of game on your property, but are stipend doing so because of government. There is a medium out there that can benefit everyone and everything, even including the endangered songbird (that I assume most landowner's haven't given a second thought to). Hopefully finding that middle ground will come soon.
User avatar
stang67
Duck South Addict
Posts: 2981
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:05 am
Location: LA

Re: WRP Question

Postby stang67 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:17 pm

Intriguing and informative post, DR2.

However, I'd like more opinions of what you'd like for them to do, as if your interests in the issue were similar to redspeckable's. Maybe the opinion you gave DID take all those interests in to account, though. I'll hang up and listen.
User avatar
Double R 2
Duck South Addict
Posts: 6206
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:06 pm
Location: Duck blinds of the World
Contact:

Re: WRP Question

Postby Double R 2 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:26 pm

Ramsey Russell's GetDucks.com® It's duck season somewhere. Full-service, full-time agency specializing in world-wide wingshooting and trophy bird hunts. Toll free 1-866-438-3897. Visit our website to view 100s of client testimonials, 1000s of photos.
Bercy
Veteran
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 12:01 am
Location: Jackson

Re: WRP Question

Postby Bercy » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:59 am

TTT - Has anyone heard of any developments as far as thinning/managment of WRP properties?
User avatar
Wingman
Duck South Addict
Posts: 12158
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 12:01 am
Location: Delta

Re: WRP Question

Postby Wingman » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:34 am

I noticed my neighbor's newly planted WRP is one row cottonwood, one row that appears to be nothing, but I have seen a few small oaks.

I didn't realize cottonwood was an option on WRP. I know it wasn't on CRP.
ISAIAH 40:31

“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
― Franklin D. Roosevelt
420 racin
Veteran
Posts: 631
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:57 am
Location: Vicksburg

Re: WRP Question

Postby 420 racin » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:51 pm

Wingman,

Your neighbors propertyhas [robably been enrolled in the CRP/WRP Program through the Green Trees Program http://www.green-trees.com/

These guys were at the last Southern Hardwood Foresters Group meeting we had in Arkansas.
DanP
Duck South Addict
Posts: 1488
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:38 am
Location: Leland

Re: WRP Question

Postby DanP » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:29 am

Mississippi State Extension and Delta Wildlife are in the process of planning a series of workshops in the Delta that will cover both technical and legal aspects of what can be done to manage these properties. More than likely they will be held during August/September. We put a couple of "pilot projects" in last year and will be watching to see how they respond this year. If nothing else they will provide examples of how habitat can be improved for deer.
Bercy
Veteran
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 12:01 am
Location: Jackson

Re: WRP Question

Postby Bercy » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:05 am

Dan, that's good news. Can you give any information as to the pilot projects and things they are looking at?
DanP
Duck South Addict
Posts: 1488
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:38 am
Location: Leland

Re: WRP Question

Postby DanP » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:15 am

Bercy
Veteran
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 12:01 am
Location: Jackson

Re: WRP Question

Postby Bercy » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:30 am

Bump - Dan, any word on those possible workshops? Thanks.
Bercy
Veteran
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 12:01 am
Location: Jackson

Re: WRP Question

Postby Bercy » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:06 pm

TTT - Has anyone heard of any developments as far as thinning/management of WRP properties? I keep hearing rumors of someone somewhere that has thinned or checkerboard-cut some WRP. Anyone?
DanP
Duck South Addict
Posts: 1488
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:38 am
Location: Leland

Re: WRP Question

Postby DanP » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:14 pm

G. Forest Management
(1) The United States possesses the right to prohibit all forest management activities, unless NRCS determines that forest management activities will further the wildlife habitat and wetland functions and values of an easement. Before forest management activities, including timber harvest, may be authorized on an ACEP-WRE through a CUA, a forest management plan must be developed and appended to the WRPO.
(2) The primary goal of the forest management plan component of the WRPO is to restore, protect, and enhance wildlife habitat and wetland functions and values within the forested portions of the easement. A forest management plan must be developed by an NRCS forester, or the landowner may obtain a forest management plan at their own expense from a professional, certified forester, and provide it to NRCS for review and approval. The completion of an NRCS-approved forest management plan alone does not guarantee thatforest management activities will be authorized on the easement area. Forest management activities described in the forest management plan that are approved by NRCS for implementation must be identified in a CUA and are subject to the following limitations: (i) Forest management activities must be implemented in a manner and during timeframes
that will minimize impacts to forest nesting birds.
(ii) Maximization of timber harvest for economic gain is not a consideration in developing
the forest management plan or authorizing a CUA, however, any proceeds derived from the sale of timber harvested in compliance with the forest management CUA, may be kept by the easement owner.
(iii) NRCS must inspect any timber harvest operation during implementation to ensure the CUA is being implemented as written.
(3) NRCS will not authorize forest management activities that may negatively impact at-risk or listed species or fragile or rare habitats found on the easement.
(4) Except where authorized by the national ACEP-WRE manager in consultation with the NRCS national biologist, clearcutting of forested habitat is not permitted. Clear cutting may only be considered in unique situations where NRCS wildlife and forestry professionals agree that forest conditions or special wildlife habitat needs require such a measure.
DanP
Duck South Addict
Posts: 1488
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:38 am
Location: Leland

Re: WRP Question

Postby DanP » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:21 pm

Above is the current guidance. I know the NRCS state forester retired last year, so it may be difficult getting anything approved until they can staff back up. Bottom line is it's going to take a true forest management plan providing evidence that program objectives are being met through silvicultural activities to make anything happen.
Bercy
Veteran
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 12:01 am
Location: Jackson

Re: WRP Question

Postby Bercy » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:09 pm

Dan - Thank you for the further information. Our WRP easement allows for the harvest of timber "according to a timber harvesting plan approved by NRCS that is consistent with the long term protection and enhancement of the wetland resources for which the easement was established". Of course, that is very vague and then limited by conditions of what you posted and probably more.

I had a friend hunt with us a few weeks ago, and he commented on how our WRP looked good compared to theirs that was about 25 years old (desert-like under canopy). Our WRP blocks are in the 13th and 16th year since planting, and still providing what I would consider good diversity. However, that 20-25 year desert is coming quickly.

Have you seen some forest management plans that have been proposed and approved in recent years? If so, can you give us a ballpark of what they were (knowing that each property is different and will be treated as such)? Is there a master plan in place to consider the thousands upon thousands of acres of WRP? Thanks.

Return to “General Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests