New shells anyone?

This forum is for general discussion that doesn't fit in the other topic-specific forums.
deltadukman
Duck South Addict
Posts: 7779
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2003 11:04 pm
Location: Crunksippi

Re: New shells anyone?

Postby deltadukman » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:44 pm

I will say that the hevi metal has made my shot to kill ratio better and dont have to shoot a second or third shot to finish birds off near as much as cheap steel...use alot less shells.
7ducks
Veteran
Posts: 722
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:27 pm
Location: Madison

Re: New shells anyone?

Postby 7ducks » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:14 pm

Always questioned why there are so many different versions of Hevi-Shot/ Heavy Metal...this article answered alot of my questions:

Picking a “No-Tox” Shotshell: Code Words, Misinformation and Hyperbole

By Randy Wakeman



The idea that shotshells are sold under a dark cloud of hazy misinformation is not a new thing. Shotshell manufacturers have come up with some incredible ways to try to sell shells. There are some really goofy things out there. Be sure to go to the U.S. Patent Office and read application #12/060,412 that was filed April 1, 2008. It is called “WATERFOWL ATTRACTING SHOTGUN SHELLS AND METHOD.” That it was filed on April Fool's Day is more than appropriate.



Code words and misleading terms are not new to shotshells. We have the mysterious (and meaningless) “Dram Equivalent,” particularly “Magnum Dram Equivalent” and “Max Dram Equivalent.” Black powder dram equivalents were first introduced long after black powder was no longer commercially loaded in shotshells. It is very hard to have an equivalent when black powder varies by brand and by granulation. It didn't stop the meaningless dram equivalents from being used and still they persist. Not only meaningless, it is dangerous according to Lyman: the worst of both worlds.



Chilled shot, hard shot, magnum shot, field grade shot, target shot and precision shot has no clear definition. If words actually mean things, magnum shot would of course be larger than non-magnum shot. However, it isn't. Hard lead shot must something like really stiff Jello. It is an attempt to indicate a higher antimony content of lead shot, but it doesn't do it very well. Hard shot can mean whatever the manufacturer wants it to mean on any given day.



So it goes with steel shot, though “steel” itself may refer to over 130 different alloys with different properties. I suppose no one really expects steel shot in shotshells to be of 416 stainless, so it means a cheap iron alloy, more or less, having a density of about 7.8 grams per cubic centimeter, or 7.8 g/cc. It has always been dramatically inferior to lead as a shot material. Lead is much denser, in the area of 11.34 g/cc, but lead as provided in shot is somewhat less dense, on the order of 11.1 g/cc, due to its content of (lighter) antimony for hardening. All of these densities are approximations.



Steel generally stinks as a shot material, abrasive to forcing cones, chokes and losing velocity very rapidly compared to lead of the same diameter. It can also rust, not a desirable trait in a waterfowl load or any shotshell load for that matter. It can and is plated or varnished, but you don't have to cut open very many shells to find steel pellets welded together in some way. The fundamentals of shot performance are very well established. Denser shot flies better and has better penetration. Perfectly spherical shot is superior to shot this is not. Moderate muzzle velocity loads invariably pattern more consistently than hyper-velocity loads. For lead, excessive velocity means some shot deformation on initial set-back. For steel and other hard materials, you have more open, more random patterns due to the billiard ball effect, along with more stress, shock, and vibration when being squeezed through a forcing cone and squeezed again through the second forcing cone at the muzzle. Higher muzzle velocities for the same payload also mean unwanted recoil.



At short range, steel is of course lethal to a bird. A lot of things are, but that hardly vindicates a load. No. 7-1/2 lead shot has killed geese at close range, but that hardly makes it desirable or preferable. This same notion of illogic has been used to characterize a .223 Remington, a .22-250, and the .220 Swift as wonderful big game cartridges. They aren't. Even though a .22 rimfire has killed steer and deer alike, just because it has been done doesn't make it a good or even acceptable choice.



Shotshell sellers have tried to convince consumers that their lead shells are better than the others, so why wouldn't you expect the same from steel? Certainly, there are differences you can readily observe on the pattern board due to rounder, harder lead, nickel plating, buffering, and better wads. The only problem is that high-anttimony shot, premium wads, nickel-plating, and buffering make a shell cost more and we don't like that, generally preferring the cheapest thing that goes bang.



There have been attempts to up the food chain from the 7.8 g/cc steel, such as the sometimes brittle bismuth that has run 9.6 g/ cc, the equally lackluster 9.8 g/ cc Hevi-Shot Duck, the similar density Hevi-Shot Classic Doubles, the 9.4g / cc Hevi-Steel, and other variants that fail compared to lead. On the other end we have the spectacularly dense Tungsten Super Shot that is now spectacularly out of business.



There are better materials, but they come at a price. It can hardly be blamed solely on the manufacturers. An important component of most high-density shot materials is tungsten. A look at the price of tungsten over the last two years helps explain why the better shot materials are currently very costly to produce.



Kent Tungsten-Matrix has long been a standout performer in a dozen of my regular test guns, as close to lead as could be hoped for and easy on vintage barrels as well. But, the price is a turnoff to many shooters, though the 10.8g/ cc Tungsten-Matrix gets very close to the lead shot arena of about 11.1g/cc. Nice Shot, which I have but have not patterned as of yet, is a slight notch back in density at 10.3 g/ cc.



Next, we have a large number of “HD” loads that all run in the same, actually more dense than lead density range of 12g / cc. Are you ready? They include Hevi-Shot Goose and the reportedly “new” Hevi-Shot Duck. How the consumer could tell the difference between the old and new Hevi-Shot Duck is an open question, as is why Hevi-Shot Duck even exists if it is indeed the same as Hevi-Shot Goose. Also in the same range of 12 g/ cc is (apparently) bulk Hevi-Shot, Remington HD, and the Winchester HD loads. Of these five 12g/ cc denisity products, as you've likely already guessed, even though they are the same density the case will be made that they are dramatically different than the others. There are differences, to be sure, in wadding, propellant, hull, sphericity, and buffering. Personally to date, I've found the Winchester HD to be the best of the bunch at the patterning board. As always, shooting your individual gun at the ranges you intend to shoot at with the chokes you intend to use reveals what your gun likes the best for your use. There really is no shortcut to that, but if you want to shoot blind and try to grade patterns on your anecdotal evidence of whacking ducks at unverified ranges and random angles that's up to you.



The densest shot material in circulation is Federal Heavyweight at 15 g/ cc. It is has proven to be fabulously good as discussed and shown in several previous articles. Nothing compares with it in 20 gauge, but a 1-1/2 oz. 20 gauge load while appropriate for turkey isn't likely what you want to shoot in high volume. With the 1-5/8 oz. 12 gauge loads, you might be enticed to use them on Canadian geese. Either way, I can tell you they do an amazingly good job on turkey.



This concludes a brief overview of where we are today, though there is also Fiocchi Tundra and the Winchester “Blind Side” that is touted to hit like bricks, which is supposed to be as good as dropping like rain and other fishing lure quality hyperbole. We can all hope for a drop in tungsten prices to help out all the denser loads. Regardless of who offers it, I would not expect shot performance to stray very far from the fundamental rules of density and sphericity. It would take the inventions of both a new branch of both physics and wounding ballistics to allow for that. I don't expect to be testing the Waterfowl Attracting Shotgun Shells anytime soon, but it is refreshing to see that those who apply for patents have a sense of humor.
A duck call is one of the best conservation tools ever invented
User avatar
Greenhead22
Duck South Addict
Posts: 19203
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 12:01 am
Location: Mississippi/Louisiana/Arkansas

Re: New shells anyone?

Postby Greenhead22 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:33 pm

Any heavy metal that I'm given during the season I sell to others. Don't care for it.
CW
Veteran
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:50 am

Re: New shells anyone?

Postby CW » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:36 pm

feedcall
Duck South Addict
Posts: 1041
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Jackson,Ms

Re: New shells anyone?

Postby feedcall » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:21 pm

Rio Bluesteel 3" in 1 and 3/8. Amen Brother. Let it rain I say.
This is no longer a vacation, this is a quest, a quest for fun---Chevy Chase.
Dr. B
Veteran
Posts: 654
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:14 pm
Location: Montgomery, AL

Re: New shells anyone?

Postby Dr. B » Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:20 pm

No Black Cloud? Interesting.

Dr. B
"Shoot 'em in the face!"
User avatar
ragon
Veteran
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:49 am
Location: pope
Contact:

Re: New shells anyone?

Postby ragon » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:26 am

GRHRCH UH Mallards Bear Trap MH - Bear AKA ( Meathead )

Mallards Daisy Cutter ( Daisy )
mphillips
Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:37 am
Location: Brandon

Re: New shells anyone?

Postby mphillips » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:33 am

I shot Blindside last year. 3" 12 gauge #2. I killed more ducks and crippled a lot less shooting the Blindside vs Remington Hypersonic, Nitro-Steel, and Winchester Drylok. Part of the "theory" behind the Blindside shell is the pellet shape. It is supposed to allow more shot in the shell compared to round shot because the Blindside pellet can be "stacked" in the shell. They also claim the pellet shape produces a more devastating wound track thus increasing the killing effectiveness. Of course there are a ton of other shells I have not compared the Blindside to that are probably as effective. The Blindside shells did seem to be "dirtier" than any of the other shells. My semi-auto required more cleaning compared to the amount of shooting with the Blindside compared to the other brnads. I will probably still use the Blindside this year.
Maury
User avatar
teul2
Duck South Addict
Posts: 13577
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2001 12:01 am
Location: Delta
Contact:

Re: New shells anyone?

Postby teul2 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:23 pm

Looking for 2 duck calls from Dominic Serio of Greenwood (ones for Novacaine)
"Most Chesapeakes, unless in agreement that it is his idea, will continually question the validity of what he is being asked to do" - Butch Goodwin
RiverDuck
Duck South Addict
Posts: 1021
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:28 pm
Location: Mississippi/Arky

Re: New shells anyone?

Postby RiverDuck » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:35 pm

User avatar
ragon
Veteran
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:49 am
Location: pope
Contact:

Re: New shells anyone?

Postby ragon » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:44 pm

Xperts 2's or bb's will killem all day long (if i hit them :lol: ) if not meathead got my slack! :wink:
GRHRCH UH Mallards Bear Trap MH - Bear AKA ( Meathead )

Mallards Daisy Cutter ( Daisy )
ScottBrown
Veteran
Posts: 369
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:07 pm
Location: Vicksburg

Re: New shells anyone?

Postby ScottBrown » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:10 am

I shot Heavy Metal Mag Blend during Turkey season with devastating results. Just bought a case of Number 2's so I’ll let yall know if I like them as much as the turkey shells.
Anatidae
Duck South Addict
Posts: 5446
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 12:01 am
Location: "Dixie"

Re: New shells anyone?

Postby Anatidae » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:59 am

I still have the tail-end of a case of Supreme BB's that must be going on 8 years old - better cut one open and see if the steel rusted together, huh?

'Been shooting Xpert and Xpert HV's for several years like Ragon. That way I can save the NOW high-dollar Supremes (and such) for 'special occassions'..........like when I get desparate enough to shoot at something outside of 30 yds.

Oh, nothing thrills me more than making a clean kill on a duck at 60 yds.......but I quit shooting Winchester Super-X 6's (lead) at ducks when the laws changed.

So, no 'new' shells for me - haven't changed my approach to gunning waterfowl since steel became mandatory. No need to, now. Basically, work'em in close or pass'em up.
QuackX
Newbie
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:28 pm

Re: New shells anyone?

Postby QuackX » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:25 pm

I have always shot Kent Faststeel #2 or BB in 3" and 3.5". Not sure what I am gonna shoot this year. Gotta get a new shotgun first then will work patterning some loads to see what hits best.

Great thread going here.
User avatar
skywalker
Duck South Addict
Posts: 1832
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:38 pm

Re: New shells anyone?

Postby skywalker » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:53 pm

Shooting black cloud out of my Silver, wish Nitro would come out with a duck load like I use for turkey! That would be deadly!!

Return to “General Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests