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Re: Topic: Alcohol and the Bible
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:15 am
by Bully
GulfCoast wrote:The arguments for "its just grape juice" defy logic, or otherwise there would not be the myriad warnings against drunkeness in the bible. That is simply a straw house built to justify a position, as are the totally convoluted ways people strain to try and translate the greek, hebrew and aramaic to make "wine" unfermented. Unfermented grape juice does not cause drunkeness, which is universally condemned in the Bible. The whole "water was too polluted" thing is unsupported by a shred of real evidence, too. If so, the people would be so weak from giardia/crypto, etc that they could have never mustered an army. Why were the women pulling water out of wells instead of just drinking the uncontaminated wine?
The answer is very simple. There are many liberties we have been given in Christ. We have the liberty in Christ to drink wine (etc.) so long as our excercise of this liberty does not lead to sin, or become a stumbling block to others. If it is a "stumbling block" for you, or leads to sin, don't do it. Likewise, do not condemn others, as forbidden by the Bible, until they reach the point of drunkeness. Its really not that difficult.
I agree with this completely. Also, drinking is not the only thing to consider when you think of stumbling blocks. If I have a friend who weighs 400 pounds, I should not order a triple baconator when we are eating lunch together. I have also heard people say that drinking does not glorify God, so we should not participate. Does drinking Coke, Dr. Pepper, Mountain Dew, etc. glorify God? Maybe we should only drink water.
Re: Topic: Alcohol and the Bible
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:43 am
by Deltamud77
I have heard the argument that it may be a sin NOT to drink in moderation. The argument is that Jesus was the one and only truly perfect and sinless being on this earth. Jesus made and drank wine (real, alcohol wine). If we are to emulate Christ, this may be part of the deal. Moreover, red wine, when consumed in moderate amounts, actually promotes health whereas cokes and the like are detrimental to the body.
I don't buy into this argument, but I have heard it several times from different people.
Re: Topic: Alcohol and the Bible
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:24 pm
by uncleC
I have enjoyed the discussion of this subject....have seen and read it being discussed many times....like Tombstone, I'll post my thoughts then I'm out....everyone has their "own" scripture to validate their stance on alcohol......SO, I'm sure my thoughts won't sway anyone......when a person states they are a Christian, to me that says they are stating that Christ is Lord of their life and they are trying to follow and emulate Christ.....that being said, a Christian can strive to live like Christ but can never truly be like HIM because He is the only sinless Being in Creation to walk on this earth.....part of being a Christian is being a verbal witness for Christ.... I can see it now.... I'm sitting on the tailgate of my truck at the camp with a Bud Lite in my hand......my buddy, who does not know Christ as Saviour walks up....and I say " Let me tell you about JESUS....." I don't think he's gonna pay me much attention, probably give me down the country.....and then I've possibly missed the only chance I'll ever have to effectively witness to my friend......just my thoughts....I'm out, Chip
Re: Topic: Alcohol and the Bible
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:47 pm
by jacksbuddy
BOY! Could this go 50 pages or what!?!?!? Has anyone thought about 1 Timothy 5:23? In it, we are told "Be no longer a drinker of water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."
Should I throw out the bottled water? Hmmmmm
Re: Topic: Alcohol and the Bible
Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:41 am
by Dux Be Us
mudsucker wrote:Join the Catholic Church. This will not be an issue!
Amen
Re: Topic: Alcohol and the Bible
Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:41 pm
by hencutter
I'm in with "only in moderation" crowd. I heard how evil alcohol was growing up ,and in adulthood,realized that it often preached by men who could stand to lose 50 plus pounds. And, the theroy that it can be a stumbing block to others is true. But, over the years I have heard folks use every excuse you can dream of to point out a stumbling block. Examples: "He has an expensive car". " They teach thier kids that winning (a sports event) is everything"! "His daughter is married to someone of a different race" - "his son is married to divorced woman" - these are real examples. I have heard some of the Tee-Totaler crowd talk about watching TV shows or movies that I would'nt watch at all. Diffrence is, I don't preach at them (or, about them) because of it. Long story short,yes,The Bible does teach us not to be a stumbling block- but most folks seem like they are looking for a stumbling block,to use as an excuse.
Re: Topic: Alcohol and the Bible
Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:58 pm
by Blackduck
The bible can say whatever you want it too if you look hard enough. If you are not careful and well versed you'll find yourself being quite hypocritical.
Re: Topic: Alcohol and the Bible
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:57 am
by Deltamud77
uncleC wrote:I have enjoyed the discussion of this subject....have seen and read it being discussed many times....like Tombstone, I'll post my thoughts then I'm out....everyone has their "own" scripture to validate their stance on alcohol......SO, I'm sure my thoughts won't sway anyone......when a person states they are a Christian, to me that says they are stating that Christ is Lord of their life and they are trying to follow and emulate Christ.....that being said, a Christian can strive to live like Christ but can never truly be like HIM because He is the only sinless Being in Creation to walk on this earth.....part of being a Christian is being a verbal witness for Christ.... I can see it now.... I'm sitting on the tailgate of my truck at the camp with a Bud Lite in my hand......my buddy, who does not know Christ as Saviour walks up....and I say " Let me tell you about JESUS....." I don't think he's gonna pay me much attention, probably give me down the country.....and then I've possibly missed the only chance I'll ever have to effectively witness to my friend......just my thoughts....I'm out, Chip
The most valid argument that I have heard and something that I have given merit to. However, I have had some amazing discussions on Christ over a beer or two with non-believers. I think the flip-side of the argument is that some individuals are so in fear of being judged that they are afraid to asks questions or open up about God. Seeing someone handle alcohol in moderation can defuse this "push-back" in my experience. Just another thought...
Re: Topic: Alcohol and the Bible
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:51 am
by Sea-Donkey
My 2 cents:
If you drink enough that your morals change, it is a sin. For example, you normally are faithful to your spouse but after a few drinks you wake up in a hotel room with a stranger. Problem.
You have a few and your integrity doesn't change.
No problem.